New course and programmer for phpnuke v8.0?

Involved Joined: Oct 09, 2004 Posts: 293

Im a end user...For those who dont know or have forgotten..thats the person who at the end of the day USES the product.
Without us, all the coding in the world is piontless, or at least a simple achedemic exercise. My interest is the FINISHED product, that it has what I want to do, well, reliabliy.
So who is the end user?
There are the:
1/ kiddies who want to put up a site with all good intentions, wack every fancy theme.module, bell and whistle onto and disappear i weeks or a few months. The majority
2/The small niche subject who wants a good interactive medium to present thier interest. In a sensable manner to other like minded ppl...these tend to be long term, well ranked
3/Larger interests, tending to be of a more commercial/Sport club/school. Long term, and cant be bothered with bells and whistles.
All of the above user vary from experianced webmasters to the soccor club's Secretaries son making a web site for the club.
Dont get me wrong, Im not taking sides, Im just expressing the views and observations of end users.
So what do we have?
Pay $10s to get the lastest (and assume the best version) start loading up, couple hiccups..check out a few support sites and find we have crap, then have to muddle our way thru bloody patches, coding, site screws up, why? Because if we are lucky, we have a bit of basic experiance making the odd .bat file, editing a couple .ini files in Quake, or tops know what files to edit in Windows to make to run how we want.
Look at it this way..We have a defective product to start with and paid for. We know it is open source, but to find the orginal code is horribly defective, securtity, functions faulty, etc etc and there is another group of dedicated guys are then independantly fixing these EVERYTIME a new version is released, and find that Donations are requested to do this (far enough) but what a STUPID situation.
To make it even more STUPID is that we then find this has been going on for Years. The cream on the pie is the orginal coder has no support for his product!
This makes Mircosoft look like angles, even going back to dos-shell/ 3.11 days
As we come across Nuke supports sites what do we consitantly find?
Threads, comments just like this one, and they are ALL say the same thing.
Conclusion: Nuke has the Coders/support/facities but the root of the problem is at the source of the code. If the source of the code was in NZ, the Goods and Garanees Act. Sale of Goods Act and the Consumers Act are all breached.
Open source or not, the orginal code is being charged for, the consumer has the right to expect the performance from the product that it is advertised to do.
These are all fair Acts. Not only would expenses and damages be claimable but hefty fines running into 10s of 1000s $ would be imposed. The support guys could be contracted to fix to the end user and claimed back from the orginal source source of faulty code, plus any time involved fixing hacks and other sundry damage as to recovery of data.

registered · Worker Joined: Aug 05, 2005 Posts: 139

yes i can prove it but i not posting here, there thing called privacy act,
i wont public show them

if you want pms only

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:27 pm

Quote:

Open source or not, the orginal code is being charged for, the consumer has the right to expect the performance from the product that it is advertised to do.

Quote:

PHP-Nuke is free software, and you may redistribute it under the GPL.
PHP-Nuke comes with absolutely no warranty

Steptoe... Never EVER EVER pay for PHP-Nuke. The day after it is in the club, you can download it for free from someplace else, but more importantly, PHP-Nuke code from phpnuke.org is ALPHA quality code. It should never be used on a production website.

My next comments are personal and are directed to Phoenix-CMS and not as a moderator but simply as my humble personal opinion. Thus, anyone reading this should consider it as such and not to reflect the opinions of Ravenphpscripts as they are neither approved or endorsed by the webmaster.

Phoenix:

Privacy act?

As you have failed to answer any of the questions regarding your relationship to FB, to this new code or to any of the accredited developers that have been keeping this code going for the past years, I must assume that you are totally full of it. (and everyone know what "it" is.).

You have failed to be a contributing member of the community and have failed to distribute code that is not in violation of Copyright law or in the spirit or FSF or GNU GPL, nevermind in compliance with those policies.

As for advertising here, what is it that you want to advertise? I mean, you haven't even provided a domain name where people can see this vaporware. I don't think Raven would have any objections to you advertising here; however, rest assured that I doubt he would allow advertising that pointed to a domain that violates copyright law or GNU GPL.

As has been stated already, actions speak louder than simply words. You've made many comments, but have failed in every single instance to back any of your claims up with fact (code) or demonstrations of those claims.

With that said, it is probably better than you crawl back under the rock from which you came because the last thing this community needs is more broken promises or misdirection.

If you want to make claims, back them up with at least a demonstration. If not, don't comment at all. But most importantly, STOP coming to this and other support sites and making promises of code to users. I've seen 3 different threads here where you talk about things that you are doing and promise code samples (when people are sharing THEIR code with you), yet despite the repeated requests for code that you would have "tomorrow" you never come through and it pisses people off.

In a nutshell, your actions are hurting this domain's reputation of providing accurate, prompt and usefull information and resources to the community of webmasters.

Personally, I trust you as far as I can throw a Cray supercomputer. Your extensive history of Copyright violations, GPL abuses and continuing history of violating not only the law, but the philosophies of FSF and GNU GPL leave a very bad taste in my mouth.

Your self-proclaimed importance bothers me only in the sense that you have yet to contribute anything to the development OR user community. To add insult to injury, you have provided not one single shred of proof that you have any relationship with FB or even PHP-Nuke whatsoever, other than violating the law in removing copyrights.

Your claims of self-importance and your history of known violations of GNU GPL and Copyright law as well as the fact that you haven't backed up ANYTHING with either code snippets or a demonstration domain speaks volumes that you are just lying about everything and you should just leave the community if for no other reason than your lies do nothing more than waste everyone's time.

So as I am not speaking for raven or this domain, or anyone else, but just as myself (being that ass that I am), I can only say, "Go away! Don't go away mad... just go away!".

Just because of you, I am forced to ponder a new NukeSentinel feature. A bulls**t filter.

Steph

Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6433

Steve, you've had some interesting ideas in the past about improving Nuke. But replacing the forums is ridiculous. With all the problems in Nuke that have nothing to do with phpBB, why introduce the possibility of new problems by replacing phpBB? That sounds great to FB since it gives him a scapegoat for the problems. But it will backfire if the real problems aren't fixed first. Many of the serious problems have been fixed by Chatserv & company. Why is it so difficult to incorporate those changes into future releases? If you answer that truthfully, you'll realize that whatever you hope to contribute will likely meet the same fate (unless you release it separately without restrictions so it can be copied without credit by the "official" Nuke development team - of one).

As for the legal issues, I'd strongly suggest you follow the advice of previous posts in this thread - for the same reasons. Clean up your own house first. Solidify your reputation before it's too late. Demonstrate your integrity and professionalism publicly - don't promise or make excuses - and your efforts will be more readily accepted.

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:49 pm

Quote:

privacy act

Now THAT is getting really cool!!
From which country? and within what borders does that apply?...
Like most countries that have privacy acts, and they are all are very similar in construction and purpose... The Privacy Act is most proberly the most abused excuse for non action and construded misinterpretations to fit personal agengas and hide behind bit of legisation ever put in practice....Im not knocking the legisaltion, Im knocking the 99% of ppl who use it to BS and cover their own inadquacies.
Im not saying u are...but just to simply say something like that without backing it up??...Sounds good to the lay person, even a bit intimidating, and it often works to.
But every once in a while it is said to a person who does know their way around certain areas of legisation, u does stand up , who does take things further, who is an old battler from the anti Veit Nam war days, Race issues, enviromental issues, school boards of trustees, National Union vice pres. Trades Council reps, well versed and active in Consumer legisatation...and has no fear standing up to anything from Multi national employers to Gov Depts and Government ministers...and will not be intimadated because they are a totally pig head Pr@#k.
Who has spent yrs looking out for the little guy as a matter of principle not money.
So be very careful about banding about ACTS without knowing EXACTLY what u are talking about and are 100% correct AND can back it up.
"matter of principle not money." If u know anything about life, history...those are the dangerous ppl, depending on what side of the fence u sit.
So as far as Im concerned at this stage Privacy Act.... BS
Do u know Nuke as it stands now is in controvention of the privacy act in most countries?

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:55 pm

64bitguy, LMAO
u think I have got this far not being silly enough to do something (considering my above post lol)like that and not reasrching this BEFORE starting on my learning curve lol Did I say I paid for it lol? nope.
No but u go to 'cops, and places like that see the odd post that comes up that ppl have done so

registered · Worker Joined: Nov 17, 2003 Posts: 131

phoenix-cms wrote:

Thats funny Laughing

might be doing work for him only making some new things in 8.x
what people know of already is just some of the chages the big chages will be in 8.0 or 8.1
i looking by 8.3 to have a bigger and better approtch to nuke.
i going to try and fix that is broken. like the bad load times in 7.9.

and hopefully if chatserv still patching by then work out problems so less work over patch series.

as this is opensource guys

support the project!

After all of this, it seems to me that Steve actually just wants someone to write it for him. He can take the credit and get rid of phbb, for some forum he wants. Then he can sell it to unsuspecting gamers as a "gaming" format.

Bah!! I will make sure that the people in my community are aware of his site. There ya go Steve free advertising..........not sure it's the kind you want.

Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:17 am

getting closer

but would you call this end of nuke?

let me know Wink

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:30 am

Sorry to bring up this topic again but the last month i've recieved information from several resources.

Currently FB is emailing some people in the PHP-Nuke community if they want to help him to develop the forums, and who knows what else, to use in 8.x.
As people were bashing on phoenix-cms they should now apologize because his excitement regarding the forums is probably caused by an email from FB to him IF phoenix-cms can confirm this.

Anyway it does tell/explain a bit why all these topics pop-up since FB is rying to gather a team for it.

I wish FB good luck with finding and building a team and hope to see a good competition with Dragonfly CMS in the near future.

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

He not only received an email but FB offered him a sizeable amount of money. He shared the email with me. Chatserv was also approached and FB pulled the rug out from under him. Phoenix-cms acknowledged early on that FB had contacted him.

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:51 am

hi djmaze and everyone,
yes you are correct fb did contact me about making the forums below is what he sent out to me...

i have decided to nolonger work with fb, due to that he wants so much done for so little $'s.

i dont over 2 months of work and he always wanted everything that phpbb has which took phpbb many months and years to develope with loads of highly skilled programmers.

i must say dragonfly and cpg was perfect way with the forums making a almost true nuke module from phpbb.

at current i working on some scripts to relelase very soon just been very busy with my webhosting and gme hosting company so have not spent much time around this site for sometime.

many thanks

steve

Quote:

Stephen;

Ok... Let's put smarty or any template engine out of the game for now, while I get time to dig into it, and go for the modules that I have more interest now because the code of the fixes are starting to be a pain for me.
I mentioned that a native forum module should be practicaly a reverse engeneering of phpBB talking about features.
A new forums module should not use objects nor classes. Why? because oop on PHP consumes lot or system resources and bring a script that will be hard and tedious to maintain, that is the first requirement... anything can be done using the plain method of functions. The only OOP that I want to leave on the system is the database calls adopted by PHP-Nuke thanks to phpBB, you know those $db->sql_query("select * from....."), etc... so the current abstraction layer is used.
The HTML code should be clean and trying to have it validate as 4.01 transitional.
Total usage of the current language/translation system. Use of the current themes, it can be enhanced to be forum specific by using CSS style sheets (optional).
Total upgrade process included, a separate file similar to the current upgrade files to migrate the current forums tables to the new ones should be included.
Intense use of the filter() function included in version 7.9, if you need help with the function parameters let me know. The filter() function is included in mainfile.php and helps to filter user inputs to clean them.
Complete administration section using the new admin method introduced in 7.7 (each module has its admin folder with the administration functions inside)
Forums, Private Messages and Members List should not includes references or links to each other unless a previous check is made using the function: is_active("Module_Name");

Code should be GPL, of course and without credits on the module itself (like current forums module), but by using the copyright.php file, you must agree that if a commercial license is in use for a site the copyright of the module will not be displayed.

I think that this is a very short list if we think about a Forums module, because it's very complex and includes lots of stuff, but since there is phpBB to look at, I think that there isn't too much to add or remove on the functionality.

The first module that I have interest in is the Forums, then Private Messages and finaly the Members List.

A requirement for me is to receive frequent code at least once per week, so we can address any correction while the development is in progress. On this way will be very easy to catch any problem from the beginning avoiding to do major changes after the development ends.

How much do I pay? Considering the work and my budget for this what I can offer for the work is: $3,500 for the Forums module, $1,000 for the Private Messages module and $500 for the Members List. That's a beatiful $5,000 for the three modules.

How I pay? With no discussion on the matter I will pay the total when the work is totaly finished and ready to be distributed, but "before" distribution when we agree that the job is done. I can pay via PayPal, via Wire Transfer in US$ funds or Amazon gift certificate, as you wish.

After the modules are done, you can continue maintaining them if you want, but I can't pay for the maintenance. You can make profit of the maintenance from your website with ads or other methods. The Forums module, if well developed, will become very popular indeed.

Deadline... well, this is a considerable work, not so difficult but long... this is something you should try to say me. Will be great to have at least Forums and Private Messages ready when version 8.0 comes out. I don't have an estimate yet, but can be in about 3 to 4 months.

Well Stephen... that's it. Review these conditions, rules, guidelines, payment, etc... and let me know if you feel that you can do this work. Depending on the results, I think that more jobs will come in the future. If you don't feel to do the work, no problem, just let me know and I'll design a contest on my site.

Will be waiting for your answer...

Regards,

Francisco Burzi

Steve;

That will help a lot. Anyway for me will be better to have the code on my local system so I can test, see the code, etc.
But definitely a test/demo site will be great. I prefer that this site isn't public, would be nice idea to have the new forums as a surprise for users, at least until it's done or almost ready.

About the filter system... It's very easy. Any numerical variable should be forced to be numerical with:

$myvar = intval($myvar);

A "varchar" type variable should be filtered as follow for read:

$my_title = filter($my_title, "nohtml");

If we're saving it to the database, then it should be:

$my_title = filter($my_title, "nohtml", 1);

The parameter "1" say to the system that we're preparing the variable to be saved into the db.
For any preview or review page, like Submit News where ae force the user to preview the news before saving to the database:

$my_title = filter($my_title, "nohtml", "", "preview");

Note the third parameter empty since we're not saving it yet because it's a preview.
Same goes for the textareas, but textareas preview parameter isn't required.

This filtering should be used when reading and when writing to the db. I know it's a double function call, but will be more secure. A little performance drop for more security is acceptable.
Don't know if it's clear, otherwise let me know.

Regards,

Francisco Burzi

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:54 am

oh i thought phoenix-cms never mentioned that, my bad

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:59 am

Hmm $5000 for 2 months of work is not bad, he does have a great offer.

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:01 pm

yea but was to much for me,
and keep in mind thats 3 modules.
and he wants all the same features as phpbb but needs it as a commerical module.
not a rewrite of phpbb.
like build groundup using the same db tables.

anyone who wants a challange goahead hehe Laughing

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:13 pm

I smell another FB failure

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:16 pm

nope just somemone who wants to make a fork instead Laughing

complete rewrite of nuke.

you should see my other emails his nothing but a code thief.

and $5000 is crap i make over $900 a week from webhosting

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:32 pm

he can't make it commercial keep in mind php-nuke is GPL and how hard he tries he can't make it commercial due to the $db layer and other stuff.
Or he just offers it as seperate add-on but then again he has to read the GPL closely.

If it is a commercial module he should offer much more unless you make an agreement he pays you monthly for maintenance.
Or a different approach: 50% of the profit (profit made after extracting expenses for made hours and hosting)

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:56 pm

Sorry, but phoenix, lets not talk about code thiefs in this forum. I think that's a major case of the pot calling the kettle black and I can't stand for that kind of major hypocracy. You are the LAST guy that should be calling ANYONE a code thief.

I wish FB all the luck in the world (yeah right), but for my part, I'm simply not going to waste any more time on FB's renditions that are being developed strictly so he can turn a buck and eventually make it closed-source and turn an even larger buck in the future by selling it off to some poor idiot. FB's so called efforts of team building again are all for his own benefit and as clearly demonstrated by years of abuse, broken promises and the fact that 95% of Nuke code comes from somewhere else and was written by someone else demonstrates that he cares not about ANYONE except himself. The actions of not having technical support, or even forums enabled for that matter clearly demonstrates that he could care less about the people that use this stuff and that frankly is where the major problem lies.

As for dragonfly-cms, I was a debugger from almost the very beginning and then one day a couple of months ago I found that I had been removed from the development team.

I still can't get DJ or anyone else to reply to my PM's about what happened, but I can only assume that my being removed was relative to the problems I had with everyone "talking" about fixing problems (including my ongoing 12 month rant about unfixed theme issues that the "team" was "working on", but yet never produced one single line of code in terms of fixing the documented problems. Again, lots of talk, but nobody ever did anything (despite many promises to the contrary in every staff meeting). Of course this goes hand in hand with my total dislike of the so called, "teams" of people that are more concerned about their titles than they are actually doing anything.

Frankly, Dragonfly for the last year has been all talk and infighting over titles and other stupid crap and the fact that nobody was even bothering to incorporate code fixes that I provided was pissing me off too, so I suppose it's all for the best.

This is mainly the reason why I crindge when people talk about new development, especially when it comes to FB code. I mean look at what happened with Platinum! It simply pisses me off that I spent a few hundred hours working on the 7.6.11 and 7.6.12 code only to have TechGFX fold up shop. And don't even get me started about the "on again, off again" development of CNBYA. I've spent hundreds of hours on that and the two so-called "owners" never reply to emails, can't keep their own domains online and after a year, we still don't have a final product (this is when I wish six where still in the loop, or better yet, leading the charge).

So while we can go on and on about "what could be" let's not. Rather, let's concentrate on what is. I for one just can't take it anymore.... The "New course" is the same as the "old course"! The community's time is better spent on anything else BUT this subject.

Just my 2 cents.
Steph

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:18 pm

i see what you mean 64bitguy,
and yes i done my wrong few times in nuke community and will never happen again.
taken me good few months to releiase about gpl licence another reason why i have decided not to release anything so anything i used like from phpclasses etc copyright is given.

and with fb his so called nuke i dont give a toss anymore every release is more buggy and more code cheting then the last.

i dont want to debate about code or fb.

just when people like yourself work so hard for free to help the community good projects go to waste.

like cnbya 5 is prety much dead unless richard gets his act together.
tech with his pnp and fusion 2

you get the picture.

all people do now days is try make money from nuke they dont even think bout the people who made this phpnuke work the people who work voluntry basis.

thats my 2 cents

steve

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:12 am

[offtopic]

64bitguy wrote:

As for dragonfly-cms, I was a debugger from almost the very beginning and then one day a couple of months ago I found that I had been removed from the development team.

You were removed cos you said you were going to work on your w3c fixed php-nuke.
Secondly your bug reports regards html, they have been fixed as our bug report system says.
And third i can't find your pm's

[/offtopic]

I forgot to tell that FB offered phoenix-cms $5000 but he didn't offer others the same deal. Some even got nothing.

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:58 pm

djmaze wrote:

[offtopic]

64bitguy wrote:

As for dragonfly-cms, I was a debugger from almost the very beginning and then one day a couple of months ago I found that I had been removed from the development team.

You were removed cos you said you were going to work on your w3c fixed php-nuke.
Secondly your bug reports regards html, they have been fixed as our bug report system says.
And third i can't find your pm's

[/offtopic]

I forgot to tell that FB offered phoenix-cms $5000 but he didn't offer others the same deal. Some even got nothing.

Well, I can see why you never got my PM's. For some reason they are both still in my outbox at dragonflycms.com.

Both are Dated Sunday, October 30, 2005.

I have no idea why they haven't been delivered.
And while it is true that I have been working on W3C for PHP-Nuke, it should be noted for the last year, I have been working on W3C for PHP-Nuke. I was removed from the staff without ever have sending anything asking that I be removed, nor was I ever notified that I was being removed.

I see no conflict on working on both. In fact as stated above; at times, I have been working on 4 or 5 different solutions at once (as I think every developer is working on more than one thing at once). And as for bug reports, please see: [ Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! ] [ Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! ]
and a few others, but I won't post them. Please also note that all of the Dragonfly theme issues (that still exist) were also docuemented in detail in the staff forums which of course I can no longer see.

None of these Dragonfly theme issues are resolved...

Steph

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:48 pm

Okay [paris & djmaze]. This is going beyond the limit of public disclosure. Please take this offline.

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:44 pm

Raven wrote:

Okay guys. This is going beyond the limit of public disclosure. Please take this offline.

Agreed!

Splitting remarks by 'paris' and 'cowboy' to private area... Wink

Hangin' Around Joined: Oct 31, 2004 Posts: 33

My humblest appologies,

Sincerely, Sorry I assumed this thread was an open discussion thread. I respect your right to moderate and run your sites as you see fit altho you may want to label the forum topic in a more restrictive fashion since it appears that its okay to discuss whats on your mind from the looks of the link?

I feel that my posts where trying to be positive (from my perspective) and where also on topic. it also seems that DJ didnt take any offense either just trying to open up some positive dialog (imagine what we could do if we all communicated)

Sincere apologies, to all especially DJmaze.

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:31 pm

thanks paris lets Cheers