Sites that remove copyrights, link backs, etc. What to do?

Involved Joined: Jul 03, 2006 Posts: 273

Sorry for stirring the hornets nest as Devils Advocate but:

I am a coder. I like to be recognized and credited. But I am also a website owner and I don't like 3 inches of ugly copyright text on the bottom of my screens as seen on the link provided here. It's ugly and detracts from the design of the site. I also believe it unnecessary.

I would not be apposed to 1 small line saying something that can even have a clutip popup maybe with full credits but 9 lines (counting spacer lines and not counting page generation line) is obtrusive.

If it's SEO link back optimization your looking for well I'll let you in on a little secret. Having those links on every page of a site by putting them in the footer of a site that can have hundreds if not thousands of pages worsens your SEO rankage possibilities than having linkbacks on only a few pages found throughout the site. When the Seachengine sees hundreds of pages with links to a site from one site to another it considers it a spamming technique which is not good.

So that reason alone you should be happy they remove the copyrights from the footer.

However Placing your Credit somewhere with full details I think would be a better solution.

As a coder I think their should be a Credits Module that lists EVERYONE involved in any part of the CMS.

The footer copyrights give credit to phpbb, Francisco, Raven and Nuke Coder. But lets be fair not any one of these people are solely responsible for the product and all it's components. There are hundreds of people that have contributed their time to it too in one way shape or form. Is it fair that they don't also get a line at the bottom of every page too? Not really.

I am a coder I like my Credits to remain in my files and I give credit where credit is due in my files too. If I leave someone out it is unintentional but I also don't have any desire to Graffiti my end users website with my name everywhere either. Give me a small place somewhere that mentions and or links to me is fine. But keep your site attractive.

So with my comments in mind maybe you should ask yourselves if perhaps their is a different approach to the matter one that actually takes in to consideration the end users thoughts and feelings on the matter and not just your own? One where both sides win with a better outcome for both parties?

Sorry if Offended anyone with my opinions.

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

No offense here. I totally agree that the footer is out of hand. That's exactly why I kind of shifted gears.

I don't know the credulity of the SEO statements as I am still in the dark after years of playing around and reading 100's of articles that contradict each other depending on who wrote it and when it was written Laughing

All internal credits should be left in place as far as the script goes. Whether at top or bottom.

As to listing everyone that may have contributed something to a project, we list as many as we can in the Credits page of our documentation.

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:46 pm

There is a credit module available to download. But it's not default in the RN package.
The only problem is it can be removed from the package.And it's not really SEO-ready Sad

.

I agree with you. I don't really like having that little bit of code at the bottom of my page. But if you go on popular professional sites ,they all have it. It's discreet and use fancy styles.
I personnaly think it would be stupid to remove the copyrights , but why not make it tinier? I'm not saying to make it invisible
The forum copyrights aren't really necessary. The PoPup box is fancier.

UNiT, FB is a twat , he did code PHP-Nuke 1.0. But now half of the credits should go to developpers who maintains it. When you look at all the changes made from 5.0 .FB is not mentionned in the changes.....I'm not trying to bring something up.
But if FB still has his credits on every single Nuke CMS(forked or not) why not Raven? People don't change their mind about copyrights.(even when it's free).
And I'm really glad someone opened this topic.

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:24 pm

Well there are was of Making a Credits Module so it's not easily disabled. But even if it were able to disable users maybe less urged to do so when it doesn't bother them.

That Module could hold info like:

Main CMS credited sites and/or it's major team contributors with links back to the site where a page or set of pages could have credits for everyone involved.

Also the Module could list all mods included and credits and links to those Authors sites etc.

Then in your Footers you Have 1 line that says something like For all Credits and Copyrights info click here. Which takes them to that page Which from their the link out to Raven etc.

In Terms of SEO this would even be better cause 1000 links into a page of their site that links out to raven adds more credibility to that one raven link than 1000 links directly to raven from the one site.

But again some SEO people would argue differently but I have taken some of my lessons from a personal friend who seems to have a knack at launching new sites and escalating them to PR4 and 5 within days of launch. So I like listening to his suggestions. Ultimately most of the truth lies in some of the things Montego said earlier in terms of SEO but linkbacks are very huge contributors and will always be when used properly.

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 8:18 pm

Credit module sounds like a great idea, youve got my vote...

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:52 am

I have no issue with Credits other than having them EVERYWHERE. One of the things i Have always hated about Nuke is there is s**t all over the place. At times they are ugly, hugh and in the way.

I am all over a "Credits" Module where ALL the credits would go. I think that is a wonderful idea.

SEO....I do know for a fact the Header Text and Footer Text matter a lot to Search Engines. If any of the admins wish to see one on the high end reports I pull on my sites just send me a PM and I will be more than happy to send you a copy of it. They are much more complete than anything you have seen for free and they do work.

I also think a reasonable fee to remove them is in order as well. While people that are into CMS's know "Nuke" when they see it...I prefer not to tell everyone and their brother how I do what I do. I have often asked for a Private invite only forum here at RN for Paid supporters to share code. There are a LOT of things I would post in private vs in public.

Just my humble .02

Dawg

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:44 am

When it comes to professional sites , I agree hiding the code is necessary. You don't want to attract to much attention to the footer.

Just look at this one , made with php-maximus (yet another fork) : [ Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! ] , if you remove the ugly max cache then it's perfect.

Involved Joined: Nov 19, 2003 Posts: 282

Yesterday I had to abandon a theme I was working on because of the footer.

I am posting this because I am so tempted to become one of those guys who just deletes the footer. If its going to clutter and confuse and cheapen the look and feel then Im not going to make any money nor will I then make any donations because I dident make any money and so congrats you credited yourselves to another failed site.

There is so much more potential to this software than a game forum or hobby website but certain things have to change and I think this is one of them.

Now all thats not to say I dont want to give credit where credit is due ... I have written some programs and I understand completely... but in the face of marketing and live or die then the footer becomes moot... and this feeling I think is why some people surrender and just delete it.

And I feel no obligation to FB for anything but laying an egg. Good for him - Congrats! But someone else sat on that egg and hatched it. I feel some obligation to Raven and his team because I think his code just might offer a site that doesnt wind up with porn on the front page but you have to have to have the right server and passwords.

Okay now I feel like Im ranting - but these feelings against the footer are what I think alot of people have and as such they wind up just deleting it.
Credits as a menu option under "Site information" totally gets my vote. Its far more appropriate and its professional.

I think that origionally the footer was not required - only the internel code credits ... and unless the law changed in the last 10 years to my knowledge thats still the Law ... although it might not be whats "requested" these days... but I'm not a lawyer. What I am is human and if I feel like all that stuff at the bottom of the page is going to cost me money or prevent the big boys from looking at me .... well guess what ....

All that rant said - Can anyone show me a nuke site that makes $25,000 a year or more? Anyone? I have watched Raven do this since it was just Raven and chatserv.... and it took until this version 2.30.1 for me to actually think something with php nuke could actually do this (make money) - and mabie it already does ... but if so I don't know about it. Does anyone else?

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:28 pm

It's perfectly okay to rant. And I am in agreement with you as I said above. Tell me your thoughts on this.

All credits stay internal except for the home page. And in my case since I am the official owner and distributor there is only 1 line that must appear in the footer of the Home Page:

Distributed by Raven PHP Scripts © 2009

or something to that effect. And it does link back to [ Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! ]

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:03 pm

I suppose after my rant at this point I think any footer is clutter - including the page generated.

A single credit on the home page wouldent be too bad but thats not exactly "footer". If it were there I suppose I prefer powered by instead of distributed .... but I suppose thats a personal preference. Mabie a powered by kinda like the module copyrights on the front page would be cool... I don't know... Id have to see it ... but I think it could fly.

Ultimately I think it comes down to the question - do you want credit or do you want money? I'm not sure both can be obtained using the footer.

Im considering advertising - if done properly it could earn more than $25,000 a year.... so Ill have advertisers of big businesses looking at me and If I have to explain one thing about that footer in a sales pitch then the footer or the software hasta go. Its hard enough to get businesses to give you advertising dollars. I mean does anyone really think me or anyone else is interested in explaining to the Mcdonalds public realtions department what all that stuff is at the bottom of all the pages? Its most definately not a topic of conversation that belongs in a sales presentation.

Uh oh Embarassed

Im ranting again Laughing

Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 11:08 pm

Oh and this leads me to the copyright rants.... by another example do you really think anyone the likes of the Kellogs company is going to sponsor a site that has links to nukescripts who links to some game site some kid tried to start that now links to some porn site?

I think not. They will laugh at you BEFORE they hang up Laughing

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:53 am

Ok so we determined that some really don't don't like the footers. Do we have any concrete ideas for solutions that could make everyone (well at least the majority of each side of the fence) happy?

Been awhile since I paid full attention to the other bigger more successful CMS's but does anyone know their requirements? Wordpresss, Drupal, Joomla etc? But I don't remember them as obtrusive as most nuke sites?

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:19 pm

Hahah I was browsing over some of the copyrights and one of the guys email's is something like peter-pecker. Thats gone. I mean really.

As for Ravens idea - I love it. Powered by RavenPhpScripts with the link to here. Its perfect and more importantly its professional.

A credits page is also professional - and as someone pointed out already it removes the threat of link spam.

As for bad net neighborhood - copyrights must be professional if they are to be displayed on a professional site. Linking to someone called peter-pecker is not professional by any standard. Additionally - some modules authors sites are gone. Thats a no-brainer also.

As for linking to sites that link to porn sites - I'm sorry - your free to do that and I've nothing against it but its not the profession I'm in and I'm not linking to it.

Mind you this is the professional site I'm speaking of. The hobby site or gamer site is another story and I wouldent think these issues matter much to them if at all.

Im speaking to the possibility of realizing the potential of this software on another, more professional level. I'm curious as to why all this time and effort has been given yet this option has not been pursued. It most certainly could be.. It definately has the quality to stand with the big boys ..... and so I'm like ... uhhhhh ..... perhaps nobody is interested. Mabie you don't think its good enough - I'm here to tell you it is good enough but you have to grow up and play like adults. Not to say the Raventeam doesnt - they do - but not everyone does.

Oh and I hope nobody takes anything I say personally. Ive been here for 6 years - Ive never spoken ... just watched ..... I've watched it all come and apparently go...... Raven is still here and I've got nothing but the highest respect for him if not for this reason alone. Of course there are a few other reasons but there's something to be said for withstanding the tides.

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:16 pm

draxx,for one reason ravennuke is still a "forked" nuke cms.So it's still has the bad reputation FB has given to nuke(unreliable and unsecure).

I've been looking at e107 lately and the footer states "Powered By __Admin___ with a little help from e107" and the e107 links back

Suggestion to the team:Maybe time to change the name to Raven's Cms on v3.0?

Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:42 pm

I wouldrent run FB's version of nuke if he paid me. So I have to agree - its time to Fork.

Rave CMS 3.0 - Yep - that is what it is isent it? You have practically rewritten the code so might as well rename it.