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gator81
Worker
Worker



Joined: Jun 09, 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:17 am Reply with quote

I have made post here awhile back and it showed to be more work then needed for what i was wanting.
I wanted to see if there was a way to use an editor with the title so you could change things and there was to many issues that arised. I also asked if there was a way to just remove the posting of the title or to put a check mark beside the title to choose weither to show title or not.
With some extra research and a lot of changes for RN then I started looking again. on Papamike's site he was able to help me remove the titles on news/storys besides the main on thats on the main page. for the theme i was using there where two files called story home and story page and all i did was remove this line
Code:
"modules.php?name=News&amp;new_topic=$topic"><b>$title</b></a></div></td>

this seem to work, and yet still leaves the title to be used for admin purposes, there may be simular edits for other themes so i hope this information can be helpfull to anyone else.
 
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neralex
Site Admin



Joined: Aug 22, 2007
Posts: 1548

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:42 am Reply with quote

Not all themes have the two files and without to see the rest of the code, it seems you have broken the link and the validation, too. The most themes have only a theme.php. But besides of all, the title in the news is important for SEO and its not realy a good solution to remove it.
 
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gator81







PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:00 am Reply with quote

then that code could be looked in the original css. with the possibality to remove.

Personally I dont have many choices, and nobody has been able to provide another solution. I was just passing on the information I have found, it is up to the person if they want to use that information.

neralex: I thank you for pointing out the problems that this could cause, but i challange you to find a solution to remove the title without having the same problems.
can the text me made transparent where it cannot be seen but still used by the SEO? is there a way to change it to the background so it blends in and cannot be seen?
does the title have to be posted on the top of the page for the SEO to work? can it be anyplace else?

you are more experienced with this then i will ever be, so I hope you may find a better solution to do this.
 
papamike
Theme Guru



Joined: Jan 11, 2006
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:21 pm Reply with quote

In themes these days there could be multiple external files attached to theme.php and is at the whim of the theme designer. Also a mix of .php and HTML/XHTML can be used. But at the same time any external file's code can be incorporated into the theme.php file, there-by eliminating those external files.

So you see, it's up to the designer to do whatever and there isn't a set method of doing things. Theme's can be extensive without breaking validation. I really do not see a reason why the titles, not being present, on the news code would break validation.

I have never designed a theme that was valid the first go round. There's always something that needs to be tweaked.
 
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neralex







PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:11 am Reply with quote

papamike wrote:
I really do not see a reason why the titles, not being present, on the news code would break validation. I have never designed a theme that was valid the first go round. There's always something that needs to be tweaked.


He don't design a theme, he has deleted only a part of a "a href" and he has not the complete "a href" after this change. So it must break the valdiation or do you have seen an uncompleted "a href" as valid code? This is an basic rule of html and every "designer" should known the html basics? In my eyes have this one nothing to do with "design".

The best reason why you do not delete a title of a news is goolge or better SEO. If you delete the title, then can not locate the goolge-bot the title of a article in the index, in the topics and in the categories. I think its an important point.

If read a newby this post, he take it in his code without to know what he did. Thats was the reason of my pointing.


Wink
 
andyb2
Regular
Regular



Joined: Aug 26, 2012
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:08 am Reply with quote

can you not just remove $title from the line? Or find if the news title has it's own specific entry in style.css and make it the same colour as the background?
 
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papamike







PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:31 pm Reply with quote

neralex wrote:
He don't design a theme, he has deleted only a part of a "a href" and he has not the complete "a href" after this change. So it must break the valdiation or do you have seen an uncompleted "a href" as valid code? This is an basic rule of html and every "designer" should known the html basics? In my eyes have this one nothing to do with "design".

The best reason why you do not delete a title of a news is goolge or better SEO. If you delete the title, then can not locate the goolge-bot the title of a article in the index, in the topics and in the categories. I think its an important point.


By not completing the <a href doesn't really matter, that is the only part of the snippet that the poster highlighted and posted here. You should be careful what you reply to without knowing the entire story.

I am not going to include the URL for the website because the designer and I have been communicating back and forth about his website and he has asked me not to reveal it.

SEO doesn't come from just the title these days, in this instance. When a news story is written the keywords are entered and included into the Tag Cloud. The search engine can then compare the keywords in the tag cloud against the news story. Also, I ran the website in question through the W3C validator and received no errors. So that alone proves that the title makes no difference in validation.

A final point. When I ran the website as a search through Google I received about 59,700 results. So I would think that it has been spidered a least once.
 
gator81







PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:31 pm Reply with quote

I have not had any luck myself with trying the other methods. It is trying to get the title removed from showing on the box and keep it for the admin lines. removing the two lines seem to work as the other admin lines still show the title making it easier to determine what is what.
why cant the title be stored like a meta tag? why cant it be hidden? what if a person didnt want that page on a search engine?
I really like RN and I have learned a lot since using it and I will continue to use it for as long as i can.
the title issue is what i have worked on for over a year and the one thing i was shown that works should not be done? To be honest I would gladly give up having more of the pages on a search engine just to have the title not show on the blocks.

for those that are working on future versions of RN may i only ask you set the title for a choice to show it on the page, hide it, put it in a meta, or not show it on the page at all but still show for admin purposes.

And not to ramble, but there is no other site that I have found that give the support like ravennnuke has done. There is a great amount of help from so many talented people that take the time to help even those that dont know much, it is an honor to just be a member......
 
papamike







PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:34 pm Reply with quote

andyb2 wrote:
can you not just remove $title from the line? Or find if the news title has it's own specific entry in style.css and make it the same colour as the background?


When you remove something, in this case the $title then it's best to remove the entire snippet with it. You might receive a validation error if you don't.
 
neralex







PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:50 pm Reply with quote

gator81, you have created different threads with the same question. In all your postings to your issue with the title you have given no full infos. If you had written all in one, then you will found only one result and not x threads with your same question. You will change only one simple html line in your theme and make a big discussion? What do you have trying is a very specific using and its not recommend with "normal" using. Besides of this, Nuken had given some examples for that. The way is the same but you need a little bit know-how of html and css for a self-realizing of your specific using. With google you will found millions of tutorials to html basics and the using of css. But do you have tried to use google to understand the code, that you will change? I see you in your postings only cry that things do not work, but in the "normal" use of the CMS they are not needed. You have also not mentioned in this post that your "how-to" for a page should be used, which does not appear in search engines, which also gave a wrong approach.

papamike, he has open here some threads without a link to a another page, so i can see only this, what he had posted here. If a user use this snippet from here, then breaks not only the link and the validiation, it breaks the closed div container and the closed td, too. If was deleted this line in a theme (it seems is an very old and outdated theme), then the user gets more problems in his theme or do you want explain me, a closing div and td ist not more needed? Sorry but i can't believe it!

Make it sense to post an uncomplete how-to with an snipppet, that not worked? Nobody has ask you to give the URL of the page and in every theme you don't need the URL. You have created so many themes an you don't know that? I'm wondering, because in the current themes is using a variable for this and not the full URL.

For my SEO pointing - please try a look into the current SEO rules from google and you will see what i mean. It's long gone to the page title and page description are the only needed things. The both are a part of the SEO rules but not more all and a Tag Cloud is not a alternate for that. It's about the design of the markup with specific html tags and ids for identifing the content. The last big google update shows that very exactly.
 
papamike







PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:34 pm Reply with quote

Sorry, but your post makes no sense to me. You assume too much. This forum is used for learning and I do not plan to argue the case.

EDITED: When I stated that "your post makes no sense" I did not mean to infer that you aren't knowledgeable, but that I don't understand it as you explain it. You have broken English, but then again I do not speak one word of German. So I applaud your efforts at learning English.


You have a nice day!


Last edited by papamike on Sat Sep 01, 2012 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total 
gator81







PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:31 pm Reply with quote

Neralex: The site i am working on now is not public, I am trying to get it done the way i want before making it public. If you also noticed that I had mentioned that I had talked about this about a year ago, i never denied this, I was the one that said this was what I was continuing to work on. In all post that was responded about this request a long time ago also told me that it would be to much work to get what i suggested to work, and I had asked if an editor could be attached to the title so it could be easily changed to work better with the box. I honestly dont remember anyone saying how it could be done and if it was I probally tried to do it and it wouldnt work for me.
You seem to want to direct everything to SEO. and is not the core of the entire site. as for reading and researching code, I have looked on a lot of sites, you will probally see my name on quite a few of them, and I ask questions, i ask for help, i ask why it wont or will or why it cannot. There has even been some sites that have made the post sticky because my trial and error found a salution. This is why I try to show what i have learned, I have tried not to post entire code but just what was relavent. I was not saying to anyone you should do this, or that, it was me in my own way trying to share what i learned, because i am glad I am not normal, and I am sure that are alot more of us then you might think.
I ask or post to recomend something for a future release, it will be up to the design team if they want to are not, I will not think less of them if they dont, but maby, just may be there is a chance and it could happen....
And at final, I have uploaded my site to the server so i can continue to test it online and it is hidden untill i have it finished. A validator program was run and directed to the hidden site and there was no problems found, even after removing those lines of code that you say will cause problems. I would guess just for the SEO.
When i finally go live i would like to share the url with you and get your thoughts, you make me want to work harder so to not have any problems, so unless I am told to stop asking or requestion or showing what I have learned I will continue as so far I have learned alot from alot of great people on here.
 
neralex







PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:42 am Reply with quote

papamike wrote:
Sorry, but your post makes no sense to me. You assume too much. This forum is used for learning and I do not plan to argue the case.

EDITED: When I stated that "your post makes no sense" I did not mean to infer that you aren't knowledgeable, but that I don't understand it as you explain it. You have broken English, but then again I do not speak one word of German. So I applaud your efforts at learning English.


You have a nice day!


...better to have a broken english as a broken theme code Wink
 
neralex







PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:06 am Reply with quote

gator81, I don't want see your page. This is completely uninteresting to me and not necessary in terms of your code. It seems you missunderstood me. In my first post to this topic i have only pointed two things - not more.

Without to know, what a theme you are using is it hard to help. There are hundreds of themes. All themes have a different markup and in many themes inside the current RN package you don't found a line like this. The current themes using a variable for building the title-link or only to show the title.

for example from the theme fisubice:

Code:
<td><span class="storytitle thick">$title</span><span class="block-title">&nbsp;</span></td>


If i search for a line looks like your posted line, then i found the link to the topic image:

Code:
<td><a href="modules.php?name=News&amp;new_topic=$topic" title="$topictext"><img src="$t_image" border="0" alt="$topictext" title="$topictext" align="right" hspace="10" vspace="10" /></a><div class="content">$content</div></td>


In both examples you can see, the variable $title was not set in "a href". The first one is the title and the second is the link to the topic with the topic-image inside the "a href".

Because i can only see what you have posted and i can only assume that as the basis to answer. Apart from the first two examples from the theme fisubice, i will try to explain it on your posted line. If you have a markup in your theme looks like this, you can see how open and close the tags:

Code:
<td><div><a href="modules.php?name=News&amp;new_topic=$topic">$title</a></div></td>


If you want remove the link, then you must remove only the complete "a href" and not the rest of the code, too. When I use your code without to know, what a theme you are using, then the line looks like this and the td and div are stay open without thier closing tags and the a-tag is not finished. This is what i mean with a broken link:

Code:
<td><div><a href=


It could for example look like this and you can see the td is closed, the a-tag is completely removed and the markup is not destroyed:

Code:
<td>&nbsp;</td>


To my SEO pointing: It is always recommended to have a title in a article. Google searches on the basis of HTML tags that title and attempts to identify. In the FAQs of the last big Google Update you will find it. Some successfull german developers are working only with it and it works fine. The META tags are only a part of this but they are not only way to success. I hope you know now, what I wanted to say with my first post.


Wink
 
papamike







PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:42 am Reply with quote

Quote:
...better to have a broken english as a broken theme code Wink


I think that the biggest problem with gator81 is his inability at explaining just what it is he wants to do. I have been following his progress, kinda, and he is using one of my themes which is compliant.

Here's the snippet I suggested he change.

<span class="storytitle thick">$title</span><span class="block-title">&nbsp;</span> this is the way the snippet should have been presented.

This removes the $title and doesn't effect SEO. I have already checked that. The META tags are irrelevant, as you may already know. And of course the snippet <span class="block-title">&nbsp;</span> could also be removed. I can't remember putting that in there, serves no purpose.

I've been designing themes for years and I can tell you that comparing code from one theme to another isn't a good idea. Most all of the themes for RN are CSS compliant [html too] Except fisubice which uses earlier html/xhtml compliant code. Of course I have my own style of designing/coding themes and it may not work for everyone.

My theming utility is vastly different than anything you've seen before. I am still working through the compliant issue problem which is caused by minor code problems. I just haven't had the time to finish it and continue with version 5.

Have a nice day in Germany and drink some beer for me. Very Happy
 
neralex







PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:59 am Reply with quote

I will open a beer for you Cheers
 
papamike







PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:02 pm Reply with quote

People I know who spent some time in Germany, loved it. I don't drink but they all talked about October fest and the beer.

Mr. Green
 
gator81







PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:33 pm Reply with quote

Neralex: ty for explaining this more and papamike: ty for helping with the closure

I will try to be more carefull on how i post my information the next time so to not mislead or create alot of confusion.

thank you for your patients with me.
 
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