Communities - the place for every kind of peoples ?

Susann · Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:34 am

Okay I´m sure if you are a webmaster/siteadmin/owner of a great community which is well ranked in search engines you are normally glad that the community grows and you get daily more and more new members.
How to build a community from 100 to several thousands of registered members is one thing and How to lead a community is an other hard task.

Through the anonymit of the web it´s sometimes hard to identify posters or spammers in your forum.But you have the option to delete or edit unwanted posts and close accounts and that´s the way I handle this normally depends on the situation.
But you ´ll find on many forums also users who have the goal to make as many as possible posts within a short time and so its characteristic that they often reply to every post/topic.Usually if a question is already answered such people still responds. That´s absurdity and this can also affect the quality of forums to my mind.

However, I have deactived the signature since some months and I found out that this users aren´t active like before when the signature was activated. Interesting. "lol".
I know there is a mod for. I don´t need this mod and to be honest I don´t need such users.

I don´t wondered when this kind of users tried to become a moderator in my forums but there is no chance of accepting their offer. I `m not stupid or blind. So the second biggest problem for great communities seems to find moderators which you can trust.

The best solution to this problem is if you have good friends who like to moderate your forum I believe.

hitwalker · Sells PC To Pay For Divorce Joined: Posts: 5661

Amazingly well written susann..and agree fully with points mentioned... Wink

kguske · Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6044

It is possible to have good moderators, even if you don't know them personally. I've seen several active posters on one of my sites, and their knowledge and interest led me to invite them to be moderators. They do a fantastic job (which gives me more time to post here...). It isn't computer or web related, but they seem to really enjoy discussing their interest with others. I really enjoy discussing Nuke topics here because the people here tend to be more mature than on other Nuke sites. That isn't to say we don't have fun, too! Having highly intelligent people from around the world discuss similar interests in a professional way - I have to say it doesn't get much better than this!

As for the signatures, I agree that most are overdone. It's quite distracting on some forums to see these huge banner ads for signatures. Raven's got a nice addon that only displays the signature and avatar once. There is another addon that limits the site of the signature.

hitwalker · Sells PC To Pay For Divorce Joined: Posts: 5661

anyone ever read good old wikipedia ?

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thought that is well explained...

kguske · Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6044

Very interesting, hitwalker, thanks! "The Campaign For Fair And Objective Moderation" - that cracks me up! But the rest of that article is extremely well written and useful (you gotta love Wikipedia!). The "choosing a moderation" piece is great!

hitwalker, you always have the most useful links! Thanks...

Susann · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:53 am

So we know now a lot of the power of moderators and how to choose a moderator It´s interesting indeed.
Whimsical Self-Indulgence I translated this because I was so noisy what that means. Smile

However, moderators and members have a positive and sometimes negative effect on the level of a website. Also it´s a difference to discuss something seriously or just reply with the goal to earn more points or to get more links to the own site.
I try to hold our level because I´m a registered member of several forums since years and it´s said to say, but I saw how individual users have influence over the quality of forums.
So, this means I´m not interested on users with a behavior like this:

Usually if a question is already answered such people still responds.

kguske · Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6044

True, but I'd prefer to have too many responses than not enough. It's rare that someone complains about too many responses...

Whimsical Self-Indulgence means something like "talking (or typing) just to hear himself (or herself) speak" or to brag...

Susann · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:18 am

Quote:

but I'd prefer to have too many responses than not enough.

I prefer quality. On my board are many pupils and they earn points with every post.

Btw: Why died the Techgfx community ?

hitwalker · Sells PC To Pay For Divorce Joined: Posts: 5661

mmm,but thats what you personaly prefer..
good question would be ..how does the perfect forum looks like...
What about this behaviour.....suppose you have a problem and want it fixed...
You search on a forum and when you see a topic the first thing you hope to see is the reply where it says solved....,cause your looking for that...right?

But unfortunately that never happens...
Much topics turn into "chat like" replies.
Personaly i think thats the point where the value drops.

Another point is ,is that in most cases of support forums,the forum is the resource that generates the website traffic....
So with this in mind we can go 2 ways...!...
do we just post....(kindoff keeping it all alive and well), or 2...are you gonna make sure everything on the forum runs smoothly and make sure searches are optimized...?

Up to now i mentioned the extra search funtion for the forum 2 times !.....
but is it installed?....No! .. Crying or Very sad

Why is that?
Maybe to keep support busy...and therefor the traffic?

Sample?
Go here:

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tick the Search title only and enter the word seo.

You get the perfect search results.....naturally if the topic title is about the problem...
Sure...thats why its important to start a topic with a descriptive title..
Installing this 1,2,3 mod would save a lot of time and boosts up the value of searches and therefor the quality of the forum in general...
But replying to a topic because we have to?
Personaly ill say.....thats a big no no Wink

kguske · Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6044

Quote:

I prefer quality.

I agree, but you said that the question had already been answered (which presumes quality). And, even if a quality response has been given, whatever subjective definition of quality one person has might not be the same as another. And, another response may present a different approach - leading to a more elegant solution.

Regarding Techgfx, I couldn't tell you why it's no longer around. But it is always a shame to see a quality, active site disappear.

hitwalker, can you point us to the extra search mod with one of your excellent links? Smile

I agree that it will help the quality of the searches. I also like the similar topics mod, that helps people find other topics if this one doesn't exactly seem what they're looking for. I turned it off on one site due to a technical issue, but hope to restore it soon. Maybe I can add the extended search, too.

Another thing that would help: showing the article text as a popup on search results and forum topics so people can see it before clicking it. Something like that is in the works as you know...

montego · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:01 am

Quote:

But unfortunately that never happens...
Much topics turn into "chat like" replies.
Personaly i think thats the point where the value drops.

I have seen very little of this, although, I will admit, that when I get into an exceptionally good mood for whatever reason, I have a tendency to add a little too much levity to a given thread. If you are referring to me specifically, I appologize.

Quote:

Up to now i mentioned the extra search funtion for the forum 2 times !.....
but is it installed?....No! ..
Why is that?
Maybe to keep support busy...and therefor the traffic?

I sure hope you are just being sarcastic and attempting a bit of humor. There is no conspiracy behind this except life itself. This is Raven's site and he chooses what mods to make to his site. However, I am definitely intrigued by this enhanced search. Looks great! Of course, then the admins and moderators are going to have to spend their time policing the forum Topic titles... but, would be worth it. How many times do we get meaningless topic titles and the topic has already been addressed in 10 other threads.

Quote:

But replying to a topic because we have to?
Personaly ill say.....thats a big no no

Well, hit, if "we have to", we have to right? ROTFL

Actually, there are been a few threads where the discussion got off track because something was posted that was incorrect. I cannot just let that go un-challenged as someone might read that and get the wrong idea. It has happened, but is it really grossly out of proportion to the good threads?

hitwalker · Sells PC To Pay For Divorce Joined: Posts: 5661

ha...ha...yes i know kguske...
but did you forgot you even replied to that topic..?

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trust me.......it would do miracles on ravens site... Wink

and realy,i dont know why other sites dont have this installed....

and no monty...im not sarcastic..but as i see it,i handed out a perfect search tool to be of some help...thank to evaders99,and wasnt used....

and ...im not talking about anyone here...
tmy reply is purely based on things ive seen...

The search mod code:

Code:

##############################################################
## MOD Title: Search Post Title Only
## MOD Author: drathbun <

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> (Dave Rathbun)

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## MOD Description: This mod provides one additional option on the search page. Currently
## you can search the message + title, or the message only. This mod allows
## you to search by title only.
## MOD Version: 1.0.0
##
## Installation Level: easy
## Installation Time: 10-15 Minutes
## Files To Edit: constants.php, search.php, lang_main.php, search_body.tpl
## Included Files: n/a
##############################################################
## For Security Purposes, Please Check: http://www.phpbb.com/mods/downloads/ for the
## latest version of this MOD. Downloading this MOD from other sites could cause malicious code
## to enter into your phpBB Forum. As such, phpBB will not offer support for MOD's not offered
## in our MOD-Database, located at: http://www.phpbb.com/mods/downloads/
##############################################################
## Author Notes:
## This mod will allow your users to search using the message body + title, message body only,
## or title only. The coding includes new values for constants.php to make the code more transparent
## and easy to maintain. There are no table changes required for this mod. Language entries are
## provided in English only.
##
## There is a demo account set up at the forum listed above (http://www.forumtopics.com/phpBBDemo)
## You can log in to test this (and other) mod(s) using the username demo with a password of demo.
##
## This mod has been installed as written on 2.0.3 and 2.0.4 boards.
##
## There is one language entry for this mod.
## There are no included files for this mod.
##############################################################
## Before Adding This MOD To Your Forum, You Should Back Up All Files Related To This MOD
##############################################################

#
#-----[ OPEN ]------------------------------------------
#
includes/constants.php

#
#-----[ FIND ]------------------------------------------
#
?>

#
#-----[ BEFORE, ADD ]------------------------------------------
#
// BEGIN Search Post Title Mod
define(SEARCH_ENTIRE_MESSAGE, 0);
define(SEARCH_MESSAGE_ONLY, 1);
define(SEARCH_TITLE_ONLY, 2);
// END Search Post Title Mod

#
#-----[ OPEN ]------------------------------------------
#
language/lang_english/lang_main.php

#
#-----[ FIND ]------------------------------------------
#
$lang['Search_msg_only'] = 'Search message text only';

#
#-----[ AFTER, ADD ]------------------------------------------
#
// BEGIN Search Post Title Mod
$lang['Search_title_only'] = 'Search title only';
// END Search Post Title Mod

#
#-----[ OPEN ]------------------------------------------
#
templates/subSilver/search_body.tpl

#
#-----[ FIND ]------------------------------------------
#
<td class="row2" valign="middle"><span class="genmed"><select class="post" name="search_time">{S_TIME_OPTIONS}</select><br /><input type="radio" name="search_fields" value="all" checked="checked" /> {L_SEARCH_MESSAGE_TITLE}<br /><input type="radio" name="search_fields" value="msgonly" /> {L_SEARCH_MESSAGE_ONLY}</span></td>
#
#-----[ REPLACE WITH ]------------------------------------------
#
<td class="row2" valign="middle"><span class="genmed"><select class="post" name="search_time">{S_TIME_OPTIONS}</select><br /><input type="radio" name="search_fields" value="all" checked="checked" /> {L_SEARCH_MESSAGE_TITLE}<br /><input type="radio" name="search_fields" value="msgonly" /> {L_SEARCH_MESSAGE_ONLY}<br /><input type="radio" name="search_fields" value="titleonly" /> {L_SEARCH_TITLE_ONLY}</span></td>

#
#-----[ OPEN ]------------------------------------------
#
search.php

#
#-----[ FIND ]------------------------------------------
#
$search_fields = ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['search_fields'] == 'all' ) ? 1 : 0;
#
#-----[ REPLACE WITH ]------------------------------------------
#
// BEGIN Search Post Title Mod
switch ( $HTTP_POST_VARS['search_fields'] )
{
case 'all' :
$search_fields = SEARCH_ENTIRE_MESSAGE;
break;
case 'msgonly' :
$search_fields = SEARCH_MESSAGE_ONLY;
break;
case 'titleonly' :
$search_fields = SEARCH_TITLE_ONLY;
break;
default :
$search_fields = SEARCH_ENTIRE_MESSAGE;
break;
}
// END Search Post Title Mod
#
#-----[ FIND ]------------------------------------------
#
else
{
$search_fields = 0;
}

#
#-----[ REPLACE WITH ]------------------------------------------
#
else
{
$search_fields = SEARCH_ENTIRE_MESSAGE;
}

#
#-----[ FIND ]------------------------------------------
#
$search_msg_only = ( !$search_fields ) ? "AND m.title_match = 0" : ( ( strstr($multibyte_charset, $lang['ENCODING']) ) ? '' : '' );
#
#-----[ REPLACE WITH ]------------------------------------------
#
// BEGIN Search Post Title Mod
// The following code sets up whether we look for title words or not.
$search_word_sql = ( $search_fields == SEARCH_MESSAGE_ONLY ) ? "AND m.title_match = 0" : '' ;
$search_word_sql = ( $search_fields == SEARCH_TITLE_ONLY ) ? "AND m.title_match = 1" : $search_word_sql ;
// END Search Post Title Mod

#
#-----[ FIND ]------------------------------------------
#
$sql = "SELECT m.post_id
FROM " . SEARCH_WORD_TABLE . " w, " . SEARCH_MATCH_TABLE . " m
WHERE w.word_text LIKE '$match_word'
AND m.word_id = w.word_id
AND w.word_common <> 1
$search_msg_only";
#
#-----[ REPLACE WITH ]------------------------------------------
#
$sql = "SELECT m.post_id
FROM " . SEARCH_WORD_TABLE . " w, " . SEARCH_MATCH_TABLE . " m
WHERE w.word_text LIKE '$match_word'
AND m.word_id = w.word_id
AND w.word_common <> 1
$search_word_sql";

#
#-----[ FIND ]------------------------------------------
#
$search_msg_only = ( $search_fields ) ? "OR post_subject LIKE '$match_word'" : '';

#
#-----[ REPLACE WITH ]------------------------------------------
#
// BEGIN Search Post Title Mod
// The following code sets up the search of the actual post, given
// the words found in the prior search
switch ( $search_fields )
{
case SEARCH_MESSAGE_ONLY :
$search_sql = '';
break;
case SEARCH_ENTIRE_MESSAGE :
$search_sql = "OR post_subject LIKE '$match_word'";
break;
case SEARCH_TITLE_ONLY :
$search_sql = "AND post_subject LIKE '$match_word'";
break;
default :
$search_sql = '';
}
// END Search Post Title Mod

#
#-----[ FIND ]------------------------------------------
#
$sql = "SELECT post_id
FROM " . POSTS_TEXT_TABLE . "
WHERE post_text LIKE '$match_word'
$search_msg_only";
#
#-----[ REPLACE WITH ]------------------------------------------
#
$sql = "SELECT post_id
FROM " . POSTS_TEXT_TABLE . "
WHERE post_text LIKE '$match_word'
$search_sql";
#
#-----[ FIND ]------------------------------------------
#
'L_SEARCH_MESSAGE_TITLE' => $lang['Search_title_msg'],
#
#-----[ AFTER, ADD ]------------------------------------------
#
// Begin Search Post Title Mod
'L_SEARCH_TITLE_ONLY' => $lang['Search_title_only'],
// End Search Post Title Mod

#
#-----[ SAVE/CLOSE ALL FILES ]------------------------------------------
#
# EoM

kguske · Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6044

Thanks, hitwalker. I can't remember my address, much less which posts I've replied to...
Wink

I'll test it out on my site when I get a chance. Thanks!

gregexp · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:53 am

I dont know if I will be of much use here but I think as a user that searches these forums alot and tries to help where I can I'll say this.

It was recently mentioned to me where it looked like I came out of no where and started posting like crazy.

Well thats because I used the search function and have been a member for a long time on this site and found solutions to my problems without having to add anything to the forums.

But a LOT of forums arent named correctly, a downfall to the search title mod but I'm sure that the mods will easily be able to correct those.

As for the going off the original topic, Thats where it seems I personally get my best information from, watching the fix come to the light so to say. I post a lot when I am working on something(hoping others will jump in, see where I'm at and apply a hand if they can). This may seem like it overflows the forums but allows support to be easier IMO.

It helped me to see this on 2 different occasions where I could see what I told them to do and at what step I possibly messed up at.
It also let them know that someone was working on their problem and they werent left hanging.
So it made me more aware and left them feeling better(IMO).

I believe people would prefer to see the users use the search function more often but how many times have we seen the no right blocks question asked??
how many topics are gonna be renamed to no right blocks? and half of them end in telling them to search for it. Dont get me wrong they should search for it but if set by title they are gonna get a LOT of them saying to search for it and they already have, virtually same as typing in the search that applies to content.
Basically, if you search the content you get results, If you name the forum after the content wont you pretty much get the same results as the content search.
I'd venture to say that if their was a sticky option in what to search, the results would be more beneficial then just a title or content search on this forum ecspecially. I've seen a lot of times when a solution was found, it was turned into a sticky.

I think that would be most beneficial.

Yeah I like the sound of the keyboard Laughing

j/k

Susann · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:39 am

Quote:

It was recently mentioned to me where it looked like I came out of no where and started posting like crazy.

That´s what we often call in German "seinen Senf überall dazugeben".
Translate this and you ´ll find the answer.

Quote:

Much topics turn into "chat like" replies.
Personaly i think thats the point where the value drops.

I personally expect from a PHP/IT forum not the same like from a chat but its sometimes a question of subjective and objective impression.

Raven · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:01 pm

hitwalker wrote:

Up to now i mentioned the extra search funtion for the forum 2 times !.....
but is it installed?....No! ..
Why is that?
Maybe to keep support busy...and therefor the traffic?

<sigh> "Maybe to keep support busy...and therefor the traffic?" - I really resent that remark.

HW, you seem to be under the VERY mistaken impression that I read every post/thread. I don't - I can't. There are several reasons why, some of which are the volume of email, PM's, IM's, and phone calls, not to mention the Narcolepsy and support of my web hosting clients, etc. I do not [actively] remember ever reading about your suggestion. If someone wants to suggest something to me then they need to contact me directly. And if you did, who knows why it never happened? My guess would be what I already stated.

I and the group of people, who sacrificially give of their time and talents to work the boards and attempt to help others, try to keep a more middle of the road approach when it comes to thread content. We will not publicly chastise some bantering and conversation unless it goes completely off and turns into a whole different thread. Then we just move it and/or split it.

I was not even aware of this thread until one of my team pointed it out. HW, I would expect you, of all people, to be sensitive to censoring and getting onto people because of their [apparent] motivations in posting. I have often emphasized that cultural differences are often mistaken for rudeness and flame-baiting. You have a sense of humor that doesn't always come across in the way you write it (in English). It took me a while to get to know you well enough that we now are free to exchange words with each other and not start a flame war due to a statement being too direct. Just as I have contacted you in private, I contact others in private when I need further explanation or I need to take issue with something/someone. I try very hard, but don't always succeed, to give the benefit of the doubt and keep things private unless I have been accused in public, then I am forced to respond in public. And trust me, it is not easy as I am a VERY strong type "A" personality. Montego and I butt heads every now and then because he, too, is a very strong type "A". The good thing about type "A" personalities, however, is that they say what's on their minds and then they usually can just move on.

In reading this thread, I do get the distinct impression that there is some underlying motive for starting it. If I am wrong, please accept my apologies. If I am right, please contact me in private and let me know what your concerns are.

Just one more thing for clarification. I do not ask people to become Moderators nor Admins because they are my friends or because they have a lot of posts. I watch them for [usually] a long while and I tend to give more attention to their customer service techniques/skills as opposed to their IT experience/knowledge. Those whom I ask to become admins are usually moderators that I have gotten to know even better. But, for better and/or worse, I also have been gifted (others tell me) with a gift of discernment. I can usually discern motives and people very quickly and am almost always right in my assessments. I will admit that hiding behind a screen and a keyboard makes it much harder and I have made a few blunders. That's why I have a circle of people I trust explicitly and if I have any doubts at all about a decision on a person, I will send out to this trusted group to get their honest and direct opinions. "In the multitude of counselors is wisdom and safety" the Bible says. I believe it and I try to practice it. I also try not to be dictorial or autocratic in decisions concerning changes of policy for my site. Even though I have that right as we all do, I still will bounce things off different people at different times.

So, as I bring this diatribe to a close, remember that the Bible also says "Man looketh on the outward appearance, but God looketh upon the heart". This simply means that we are not capable nor have the ability to judge the motive(s) of why people do what they do (referring specifically to things like why someone is posting a lot). In time, they will either continue (they really want to help) or go away (they didn't get the prestige and title that they were after)..

hitwalker · Sells PC To Pay For Divorce Joined: Posts: 5661

i understand....
im a support freak,but that doesnt mean i should do that on more sites.
ive picked one and thats it.
and no raven....non of the things i posted should be taken personaly and isnt ment to be.
and how you choose your mods doesnt realy matter ,cause its you who picks them......
being a moderator is just a name....and with a litle luck you get a few rights to edit someones post or transfer it to another forum ..
so what....big deal.

but being a mod has also negative sides...i know cause ive experienced that..remember?.... Wink

you always have to be carefull....,being a mod means its hard to speakup or show some kind of personal opinion....cause mostly your talking as the mod from whatever.com , and not as a person..

and as for the search mod topic i created then,well if you haven't read it then to bad...
i usualy pm you for things i considder to be important enough...
and creating a topic then was surving a wide range of people that might be interested..

giving support on a forum is a tough cookie..and i like to think ive allways done that well..

Raven · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:09 pm

I installed it. Please let me know if it works Smile

kguske · Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6044

Beautifully! Thanks Raven and hitwalker!

Raven · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:23 pm

Shall I add it to RN2.10.00 ?

kguske · Site Admin Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 6044

We can, but we need to note that it requires theme changes.

hitwalker · Sells PC To Pay For Divorce Joined: Posts: 5661

it works great raven....
thanks for taking the time ...... Wink

Raven · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:54 pm

The theme changes were very easy, at least for fisubice, but excellent point. HW, NP!

montego · Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:33 pm

kguske wrote:

We can, but we need to note that it requires theme changes.

Yeah, I looked at it briefly and my initial gut reaction was we may be able to add a special "define" that could be used within any given theme and then have the "core" respond accordingly. This way, if a theme does not have the define, any code that might have caused an issue, could be "skipped".

I think it bears consideration along with the Quick Reply mod that we've already sort-of had on our plate, but we also need to consider what we're going to do with BBtoNuke patches...

Guardian2003 · Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:27 pm

I cannot believe I missed this entire thread (well I can I'm just wondering which planet I was on at the time).
I'll try this too HW thanks.

Is this in SVN or is it on hold?