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Raven
Site Admin/Owner


Joined: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 17086

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:02 am Reply with quote

For very well known reasons, the tinymce editor is unthinkable at this point. So, I'd like to hear your choice for a nuke integrated HTML editor. Preferably, one that is mature, already been integrated into Nuke, and you have used. SPAW is most often mentioned. Are there others?
 
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benson
Worker
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Joined: May 15, 2004
Posts: 119
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:43 pm Reply with quote

Hello,

is it possible to have something like in phpBB for the meantime. I think there are 1000 discussion wich editor is the best or the most secure ...
Just have some functions like here in phpBB would solve the bigest issues with plain textareas ...

this might be too easy and I do not know the problems having BBCode in phpNuke ...

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technocrat
Life Cycles Becoming CPU Cycles


Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 511

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:54 pm Reply with quote

We just put in FCK into Evo. It seems to be the best on in my opinion. It W3C compliant and has many useful features.

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hitwalker
Sells PC To Pay For Divorce


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:26 pm Reply with quote

here's a list of editors etc... Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!
 
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Raven
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:35 pm Reply with quote

technocrat wrote:
We just put in FCK into Evo. It seems to be the best on in my opinion. It W3C compliant and has many useful features.

Could you comment on this thread?
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Dawg
RavenNuke(tm) Development Team


Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 910

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:35 am Reply with quote

I have used SPAW for a long time with no issues on my main production site.

It is resonable to install....can be turned on or off for any text area. (Mine are on for Admins Only) SPAW also has all the features I have ever wanted....uploads...text...tables....

Just my .02
 
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Raven
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:47 am Reply with quote

Does SPAW come as a nuke addon or does it need to be integrated?
 
Dawg
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:13 am Reply with quote

Raven,
It has been a while since I installed it....but from what i recall....you upload the folder.....populate an array with the text areas you want it to control....and that is it.

Not much "Intergration" to it....

This seems to be the current... Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!
 
benson
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:50 am Reply with quote

Hi,

I still not get SPAW working correctly with my firefox on UNIX .. The dropdowns are not working and some of the formattings too.

Maybe you will be able to solve it. If so, I think SPAW is one of the best.

Regards, Norbert
 
Dawg
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:06 am Reply with quote

Benson....IF....IF I recall...The one drawback to SPAW is that it only works on IE.
 
Guardian2003
Site Admin


Joined: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 6793
Location: Ha Noi, Viet Nam

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:19 am Reply with quote

I am not using the most current version of SPAW, which is available as an add-on for phpnuke but I understand from my last visit to Kodetech.com that the Firefox issues should be resolved now.

Took me around 10 minutes to install including file uploads and integrating the editor for text_area in various files seems quite simple (even for me) and at most requires 2 edits per index.php file
News Articles, Content and Reviews index.php files are included (or were in my download) so these can be used as a guide for other modules if required.

SPAW will also allow extra html tags to be available for admins so security of the html array content is not compromised - if memory serves me well.

I have not used FCK Editor - I took one look at the installation instructions and consigned it to the recycle bin. Although those instructions and the integration instructions for the editor may have been simplified since I last looked I did find it a bit scary at the time.

As for whether these editors are *compliant* - I suppose that depends on how compliant the rest of the site the editor is being used on.
I think Steph may have played with FCK at some point.
 
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montego
Site Admin


Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: 9453
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:04 am Reply with quote

Yeah, and security too... Steph has done a ton of work getting Tiny MCE (not my choice for editor by the way) integrated into Nuke the right way where proper variable checking can be done. Unfortunately, I have NO experience with these except on the using side and I am not impressed with TinyMCE in the least.

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technocrat
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:53 pm Reply with quote

Raven wrote:
technocrat wrote:
We just put in FCK into Evo. It seems to be the best on in my opinion. It W3C compliant and has many useful features.

Could you comment on this thread?
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It only took me a few minutes to get it working, it wasnt really that hard, just follow the directions. I can give you all the code for what I did if you decied to use it.

It is true that it does have a few functions that could be dangerous, so you need to fix that. First by turning them off in the config. Second by removing the other options from the window. You can do that in the include file. Then making sure you can strip out bad HTML. We have done that with the input filter that Steph suggested.

Really there isnt anything it provides that cannot be done by hand if you know the html codes. So really you just need to make sure that you are stripping the bad code.
 
VinDSL
Life Cycles Becoming CPU Cycles


Joined: Jul 11, 2004
Posts: 614
Location: Arizona (USA) Admin: NukeCops.com Admin: Disipal Designs Admin: Lenon.com

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:20 am Reply with quote

Hrm... I guess I don't get it...

Can someone point me to a post where a WYSIWYG editor made a difference?

I'm not trolling -- really! I'd just like to see a post with tables in it, or whatever a 'HTML editor' does.

Maybe I've seen one and didn't realize it...

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Guardian2003
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:46 am Reply with quote

Theres one here about half way down the page Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!
Doesnt look so good with my temporary Christmas theme though ~:
 
hitwalker
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:43 am Reply with quote

have to agree with vin..
Nuke always was satisfying enough without an editor.
And now the editor is suddenly so important.
And like posted above any working editor has to be stripped a litle bit in order to get it compatible working inside the enviroment of secured phpnuke.
But whats left of the editor ?
 
montego
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:48 am Reply with quote

VinDSL, I believe that there is little to no benefit of a WYSIWYG editor for folks that have any HTML experience. However, I believe there is tremendous benefit for sites where the content is not technical in nature (i.e., not programming related) where the users are also not technically inclined. All they know is writing documents in Word and just want very simple user interface to do similar things. They wouldn't know what a < p > or < b r > tag is, nor would they ever really care. They just want to type their article and have the end result look like what they typed/formatted.

For example, I can get my family to respond to Forum posts (for the very simple reason that they don't have to enter ANY HTML tags) but struggle to get them to enter in news articles. In their "world" the output is too ugly because they don't understand why when they put a carriage return between a paragraph it shows up all strange when they preview it.

Yes, sometimes the old adage of "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" really DOES apply. Laughing

Just my 2 cents worth (inflation hasn't set in yet)
 
Guardian2003
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:42 am Reply with quote

I would agree that a wysiwyg editor is perhaps not the highest priority of *must haves* but when one takes into account the number of none coders / none html aware users that install nuke it surely has to be beneficial to them to have one.
Personally, I use SPAW because it is quick when creating table arrangements as tend to get a bit 'lost' after half a dozen TD and TR tags unless I can see the result - but then I suppose that is my own fault being spoilt by years of Dreamweaver use.
Yes, I could of course use raw html tags as SPAW allows me to switch seamlessly between design view (wysiwyg) and raw html but I dare say out of the 500 members I have, there is perhaps two that know any html tags at all and SPAW makes it relatively easy for them to produce reasonably well laid out and formatted articles etc.

This is not to say that SPAW is any more secure or has better functionality than any other wysiwyg editor - it simply made life easier for my users and as a consequence, they submit more articles.
 
sixonetonoffun
Spouse Contemplates Divorce


Joined: Jan 02, 2003
Posts: 2496

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:12 am Reply with quote

FCK with photo uploads is useful. At least thats my choice mainly for the fact it is Firefox compatable. But yeah it requires some security tweaks or its just a scripto kiddo magnet.

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kguske
Site Admin


Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 6383

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:26 pm Reply with quote

I've modified several modules and admin function (pretty easy really) to use FCKeditor. I compared several WYSIWYG tools Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!. I liked the one Raven suggested, but didn't have a chance to update the comparsion.

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manunkind
Client


Joined: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 368
Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:48 pm Reply with quote

My 2 cents:

The point of a WYSIWYG editor is not just for people who can't code. I first learned HTML in Notepad and now I use WYSIWYG editors just for speed and convenience.

Ok...back to the topic.
 
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Guardian2003
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:26 pm Reply with quote

So it would seem then to summerise that, FCK Editor is the preferred choice due its compatibility with Firefox - provided it can be secured.

I must take another look at it as it has been quite a while.
 
64bitguy
The Mouse Is Extension Of Arm


Joined: Mar 06, 2004
Posts: 1159
Location: Sanbornton, NH USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:28 pm Reply with quote

I haven't been around for a few weeks due to some FEMA committments.... Sorry about that but paid work has to come first for me.

I have worked extensively with integrating Spaw, FCK and TinyMCE. Each editor has its ups and downs. The primary issue relative to the use of ANY of these editors remains the fact that PHP-Nuke fields are not properly defined to accomodate them (ANY of them).

Further, depending on the browser (and the version of any particular browser) each editor has different issues. This more than potentially but rather definately creates a situation where using ANY of these editors creates a domain that could be unusable to your guests.

Herein lies the main problem. For example, if you are a Mac user leveraging the Safari browser, you can forget about using any domain with any of these editors. It not only won't bring up the editor, but it won't format any submitted (even "plain text") data properly. It is even possible that the browser(s) may "lock up" on any pages with the editors. Lynx, Konqueror, IE 4, NS 4, Firefox .9, Deer Park 1, Deer Park 2, all had problems with default configurations of the editors when used with baseline "patched" nuke code. In a nutshell, using any of these tools means that you are essentially restricting who can, and who cannot use your domain. A VERY dangerous path to take and definately bad for everyone.

Three things basically need to happen to properly support using an integrated editor.

1) Every single PHP-Nuke module that has a "textarea" field must be redefined with:
1a) An "If editor exists" function in the index of the module.
1b) An "If editor enabled" function for each individual textarea with options for on and off. (If off, use the default function, if on, use the modified function)
1c) The ability for users to have a "switch" to turn the editor on and/or off on any page that has a textarea input function. (A new input variable at the top that allows users to enable/disable the editor itself as well as an option in Your Account to set a default value.... I say this because maybe your PC at work lets you use it, but your PC at home doesn't... thus you should have a default value, but always have the ability to change it on any screen).

2) The textarea definition for the editor MUST be uniquely defined with the correct input and interpretation variables for the editor so that the function itself is W3C Compliant as well as having input data saved in the proper format.

This issue is completely overlooked by all versons of Nuke and as far as I know, I am the only person to have properly formatted input variables for each of these editors.

3) Properly defining variables and textarea input permissions as well as validation/filtering of that input data for forbidden tags, etc... Again, completely overlooked by default Nuke builds as well as the documented procedures for many of these editors. I believe this is another example where I have the only domain that can demonstrate not only functionality and proper filtering, but also properly defining which editor permissions should be used in each module. Keep in mind, the "needs" vary depending on the module/field. Sometimes you want people to be able to include pictures for example (Like in a news article) but sometimes you don't! (Like in a review!)... It really depends on what the field is!

I have spent way more time on this issue than I care to think about (truly) and personally, I preferred nuke without it; however, I understand WHY it can be useful. It saves time when it comes to things like a lot of links, picture formatting, coloring, etc... But it is NO SUBSTITUTE for knowing how to do this with raw html coding. That should never be the sole reason for using an editor. It's a convenience, nothing more.

The major drawback to using an html editor is the inability to use certain formatting functions that exist by default in situations without the editor. For example, "pagebreak". It simply doesn't exist for editors and attempting to input such a funtion inside an editor input area will fail. There are more examples, but I don't want to go on and on.

The bottom line is that Nuke needs a considerable amount of work to really be in a situation where an editor can be used properly (one that won't create more problems than it solves), securely (input filtering and proper permissions for each allowed function), and proper "on/off" switching that will allow people who can use it, to use it while also ensuring a certain amount of automated recognition of your browser types' capabilities to make sure that your PC doesn't lock up when you visit a domain that uses any of these editors.

In my testing, TinyMCE has been the most stable and the fastest as well as highest cross-browser compatible (now that I have worked out all of these issues). I really like FCK editor as well (probably more due to the advanced features), but IMHO it is still an immature solution that needs a tad more advancement including Mac support and filtering before I would feel really comfortable with it.

Hope this helps.
Steph

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sixonetonoffun
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:05 am Reply with quote

Be nice if FCK was reworked into a streaming solution somehow instead of the at times painfully slow I-Frame.
 
64bitguy
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:04 pm Reply with quote

Well, this is why I commented about FCK. It has basically 4 major problems.

1) Browser Compatibility (it's not as good as you might be lead to believe)
2) Load Performance (Painfully slow due to HOW it loads as well as the file sizes)
3) Field Permission definitions (of allowed functions) and filtering on disallowed functions.
4) There are some painful "gaps" between allowed features of default builds. Sometimes the "advanced" features are simply "way too much" for what you need. But on top of that, there are security issues to address in having each input function on, but not filtered.

To add insult to injury, you need to still make sure that the data is converted for if you don't, you can forget about any kind of compliance or compatibility not only with your pages, but any output method including RSS feeds and AvantGo and yes, you also still need to worry about filtering ALL input for forbidden tags/functions. Keep in mind, none of Nuke's modules were written for an editor, so they are ALL wrong in this regard. I mean if someone sends you feedback with the editor, guess what? You're screwed! Only my version of that module has been recoded to support the editor. The same goes for every other Nuke module, and like I said, let's not forget about the fact that you need to recode all of your output files for it too! (Like your backend.php for example, and yes, your mainfile.php!)

The reason I have chosen TinyMCE as the default is that it offers the greatest level of compatibility, it has built in variable permissions definitions and automated filtering, and once you get everything setup right, it is extremely fast loading (yes, even the advanced editor screens with 3 or even 4 instances). No, it is no where near as fast as a screen without an editor, but it smokes any other editor out there. Finally, I want to comment that as I have recoded every single baseline function and output file to support using editors, it works well in my examples, but this wasn't done overnight and as far as I know, I have the only working model capable for supporting editors not only with 100% Function and security, but 100% W3C Compliant as well.

Just my 2 cents.
Steph
 
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