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nextgen
Worker
Worker


Joined: Sep 28, 2006
Posts: 227
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:11 pm Reply with quote

Raven i just finished reading the news on the main page my friend. I know you want everyone to be happy and get the release out as fast as you can but dont drive yourself into the ground to get it released my friend. Everyone knows it will be terrific and i am sure we can all wait a few more days. Take some time to rest and it will be done when it gets done my friend.
 
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jakec
Site Admin


Joined: Feb 06, 2006
Posts: 3048
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:04 pm Reply with quote

I'll second that. Take it easy Raven.
 
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nextgen
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:36 pm Reply with quote

man i was so afraid to post this as i thought i was gonna take alot of slack for it but it isnt worth raven wearing himself down for it to be released a day or two early. Thanks for posting and agreeing jakec.
 
Trubador
Regular
Regular


Joined: Dec 28, 2004
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:55 pm Reply with quote

I'll third it!!!

No point running yourself into the ground over a couple of days. Strong of body strong of mind.

If people cant wait for a quality product then stuff'em Wink

Take it easy.

Trub
 
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nextgen
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:21 pm Reply with quote

Very well said my friend. Very Happy you guys are the best and you are right, quality before quantity.
 
adaykin
Regular
Regular


Joined: Sep 26, 2007
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:13 am Reply with quote

I guess 2.20 will be released in the future...there is a lesson to be learned from this. I'm not mad or anything but release dates should not be given until there can be a reasonable schedule estimated.
 
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Guardian2003
Site Admin


Joined: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 6793
Location: Ha Noi, Viet Nam

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:19 am Reply with quote

Unfortunately when relesing software, you are always in a no win situation.
If you do not give an estimate, people constantly ask when, when, when.
If you do give an estimate and you are more than one second late then people have something else to moan about.

Fortunately, most people here have used previous versions so they know the quality of the product they are getting and appreciate that it is better to hang on a few days than have to start constantly patching the thing with bug fixes etc.
 
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kguske
Site Admin


Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 6383

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:33 am Reply with quote

I would love to have a way to auto-update so specific patches / additions could be deployed without having to major releases.

But, back on topic - we all agree that putting out a major release requires a lot of work in a short period of time, so we should help Raven rest by addressing support issues quickly so he CAN rest...

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Gremmie
Former Moderator in Good Standing


Joined: Apr 06, 2006
Posts: 2415
Location: Iowa, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:24 am Reply with quote

Confused

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Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! - An Event Calendar for PHP-Nuke
Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! - A Google Maps Nuke Module

Last edited by Gremmie on Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:13 am; edited 1 time in total 
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kguske
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:47 am Reply with quote

Gremmie, I appreciate your sentiments, but I think adaykin was just suggesting that we could avoid issues in the future by not posting release dates as if they were specific. I didn't take that as a complaint. I guess we all need a break! Smile
 
adaykin
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:40 am Reply with quote

That would be the gist of my statement. Like I said I'm not mad, but just so people don't ask or anticipate as much, imo it's better to wait longer. I think it puts less pressure on the people who are doing the development - from experience I work better when I don't have a due date for a specific task from my boss.
 
Raven
Site Admin/Owner


Joined: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 17086

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:34 am Reply with quote

adaykin wrote:
I guess 2.20 will be released in the future...there is a lesson to be learned from this. I'm not mad or anything but release dates should not be given until there can be a reasonable schedule estimated.


I don't know what time zone you are in but v2.2 was released before midnight on 2/11/2008 CST. As to when you were aware of it I'm not sure.

Pressure can be very good. Without time and pressure a diamond is never formed. Without time and stress/irritation an oyster will never produce a pearl.

I take full responsibility for the assignments of release dates and their rescheduling and I make no apologies. Could I have released it "on time"? Of course. Should I have released it "on time"? Absolutely not! While I am not offended by your statement I have to totally disagree with your statement there is a lesson to be learned from this. I have/had been a project manager for 38 years in several fortune 100 and 500 companies and am totally accustomed to and comfortable with and accurate with estimating multi-million dollar projects.

There are two major differences that come into play with Open Source and Free projects. First of all we are not getting paid to do this. Nor are we supported by anywhere near the number of people who use our product(s). Secondly, we are a diverse Team from all over the world, in different time zones, connected by the Internet. We are a virtual Team that meets in a virtual office. So, bottom line, free is free. Simply put, in general, you get what you pay for. That statement is not a reflection as to the quality. This Team is by far the very best that I personally have seen and worked with in my 7 years or so on the Internet. The amount of dedication, expertise, and loyalty that is shown is amazing in spite of their own life, family, web sites, not to mention that most of them are still actively employed in full time jobs.

I could have released v2.2 on most any of the occasions when I chose to postpone it. With the exception of my health issues, which have played a major role in releases, I chose to postpone until 2/11/2008 for various reasons, such as ...

* Due Diligence - Bugs/Issues that in spite of all our testing we hadn't found before
* Due Diligence - Making the installation as easy as possible
* Due Diligence - Enhancements for usability
* Due Diligence - Latest security fixes/enhancements of both known and unknown (publicly) exploits

I could go on but suffice it to say that I will, of course, continue to publish expected release dates. It would be irresponsible not to. They are made in good faith and need to be seen and accepted in like manner. If there is a lesson to be learned it is not in the publishing of an expected release date. The lesson to be learned is that this Team sacrifices for the community to provide a valuable service and valuable/secure product. It's worth the wait, I promise you Wink


Last edited by Raven on Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:24 am; edited 2 times in total 
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nextgen
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:32 pm Reply with quote

Very well said raven. I just got on and came straight to the forum to catch the posts and i was surprised when you said it was released. I wasnt expecting it. Nice surprise and thanks for the dedication my friend.
 
nextgen
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:49 pm Reply with quote

just to lighten the mood some..

Work vs. Prison: Just in case you ever get these two environments mixed up, this should make things a little bit clearer.

Code:


            @ PRISON                              @ WORK

 You spend the majority of your      You spend the majority of your time

      time in a 10X10 cell.                        in a 6X6 cubicle /office.

 

            @ PRISON                              @ WORK

 You get three meals a day fully     You get a break for one meal and

            paid for.                                     you have to pay for it.

 

            @ PRISON                              @ WORK

 You get FREE medical & dental       You pay for medical insurance that may or
                                                     may NOT cover the work you need done



            @ PRISON                              @ WORK

    You get time off for good              You get more work for

            behavior.                                   good behavior.

 

            @ PRISON                              @ WORK

 The guard locks and unlocks all     You must often carry a security card

       the doors for you.                    and open all the doors for yourself.


 
            @ PRISON                              @ WORK

    You can watch TV and play        You could get fired for watching

             games.                                  TV and playing games.



            @ PRISON                              @ WORK

    You get your own toilet.         You have to share the toilet with

                                              some people who pee on the seat.

 

            @ PRISON                              @ WORK

   They allow your family and        You aren't even supposed to speak

        friends to visit.                                    to your family.

 

            @ PRISON                              @ WORK

  All expenses are paid by the    You get to pay all your expenses to go

     taxpayers with no work         to work, and they deduct taxes from

            required.                          your salary to pay for prisoners.

 

            @ PRISON                              @ WORK

   You spend most of your life      You spend most of your time wanting

 inside bars wanting to get out.           to get out and go inside bars.



            @ PRISON                              @ WORK

   You must deal with sadistic           They are called managers.

            wardens.
 
kguske
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:24 am Reply with quote

Funny! Have you visited Alcatraz? If not, do so if you get a chance, and take the audio tour - you'll see why the cube is the better alternative... Smile

Quote:
...This Team is by far the very best that I personally have seen and worked with in my 7 years or so on the Internet. The amount of dedication, expertise, and loyalty that is shown is amazing in spite of their own life, family, web sites, not to mention that most of them are still actively employed in full time jobs...

I absolutely agree. If you add all the addons, themes, tweaks, etc. available for Nuke (and for RavenNuke), almost all open source, it's really amazing what you can do with very little effort. The problem with that is that some who haven't experienced the alternatives - sleepless nights trying to secure and recover a defaced site, develop a "simple" enhancement or theme - might not appreciate the behind-the-scenes effort to develop that. Prior to 2005 (not that long ago), we had MAJOR issues with security. Thanks to Bob, Raven & Chatserv with the introduction of NukeSentinel (it was introduced earlier, but the second major release make significant progress toward eliminating defacements), that has largely become a non-issue.

To that end, I started a Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! to show my appreciation for those who have significantly contributed to my ability to sleep at night - and to improve the websites I support. Bob is first on the "hitlist" because his work was first to significantly impact me. Raven will be next... Please check it out and feel free to add your comments - it's important that we appreciate how far we've come, as well as where we can go...
 
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