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shawn_himself
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Joined: May 28, 2006
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:45 pm Reply with quote

i have had my site for about 2 months now and today i got this e-mail from my host. wth lol.

"System administration had wanted me to get in touch with you about your account. They had noted that some of the software you have on your site appears to use what are called 'delayed inserts' in it's queries to a MySql databases.

In general, delayed inserts are not allowed on the shared platform due to the resource usage issues they can cause. You will need to modify your software to prevent these delayed inserts from occurring."

other than having shared hosting lol , what does this mean. further how can i correctthis. my host has threatened to suspend my site because of this.

when i spoke to him on the phone today, once i told him i was using a php nuke portal with add one security (sentinel) he said "there's your problem"

he said he could detect error's in the code causing this issue.. wth lol

is he tryin to say there is coding error's in nuke and or sentinel ??? lol

well i just thought i would bring this to the forum and get some professional advice on this and what to try to fix this. as this is a problem i know nothing about and i am seeking help.

thank you.
 
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kguske
Site Admin


Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 6383

PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:05 pm Reply with quote

I'm not aware of any such thing... It sounds like a farce to me. Are you sure you were speaking to your host? If so, I'd find another host...

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shawn_himself
PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:34 pm Reply with quote

lol , yes it ws my host.

he is saying that a query to a sql database should take less than a second.

that it was taking as long as 5 mins for a query to "go through" or whatever in my database thus , using to much system resources on their end.

im really just stumped on this. i mean ive paid in advance for for this hosting and they wont refund my money if i leave.

so do i bite the bullet and look for another host. or is there anybody or site you can point me to look for help ?

he said he could see an error in the coding of the site. most times it was caused by security software. so thats when i told him about sentinel. and that i had it on my site. he said "thats your problem"

should i contact bob marion and ask him what he thinks about this ?
 
gregexp
The Mouse Is Extension Of Arm


Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 1497
Location: In front of a screen....HELP! lol

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:46 pm Reply with quote

More then one second?
ROTFL

Forgive me but as a host, to hear such none sense is unreal.

If you dont mind me trying to clarify some things, first off ANY php that works with mysql database will use system resources for LONGER then one second, to put a restriction on it is completely upto the host(doesnt mean they are bad hosts). Hosts without restrictions are for the most part non existent, but noe that I have seens would ever put a time limit to that degree and still allow php on their server(as its basic functionality would disapear).
ROTFL

I dont mean this as truly insulting them as they maybe trying to secure their server and this is one means to do that but the wrong way to go about it.
Either guidance is needed or you should find a new host as this host should make it a point to state that phpnuke(of any kind) is not allowed.

And their is no REAL way of limiting mysql in nuke to that degree as it calls on the database everywhere you go in a nuke site(wll perhaps not everywhere but close enough).

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jaded
Theme Guru


Joined: Nov 01, 2003
Posts: 1006

PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:05 pm Reply with quote

You simily need to NOW backup your database and your website. Load it to your computer for safe keeping. There is nothing that you can do to remedy this. That way, when they suspend or terminate you, you have a fresh backup to take eslewhere. You need a NEW host plain and simple. That is rubbish. I have been a host for years and really, he is wrong. What does he want, you to go without security? I do not think so.

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shawn_himself
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:20 pm Reply with quote

thank you darklord and jaded for the help !

ftp here i come lmao

my solution : new hosting | case closed lol. kinna sucks i lost some money but jaded you hit it in the head. i wont give up my nuke or the security.

i did recieve e-mail from bob marion and he has exteneded his help to look into it. but its probably going to turn out to new hosting. as darklord stated i guess there isnt a way to fix this. its just the way nuke is.

but again thanx for the reply's and the help. Smile
 
gregexp
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:35 pm Reply with quote

Noit a problem, but now you know a good thing to ask and verify before you pick your next host. But remember, putting a limit on the database usage is not a bad thing, it helps to stop an attack on one site drop and entire server, so check the limit and when you feel the limit is within reason, then you have found a host that meets 1 of your requirements. I believe mine is set to 3 minutes. but recently was diabled do to a new module that doesnt limit the database time but limits the database resource to a specific client aka site. And monitors the entire server for resource usage going overboard.
 
Guardian2003
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Joined: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 6793
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:57 pm Reply with quote

Sounds like your host is talking BS to me - it is more likely that they have too many accounts on the server and it is getting bogged down.
Just for grins and giggles, you should ask them for a sample query which they have noted as taking so long to execute.
 
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jaded
PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:24 pm Reply with quote

AMEN Guardian.
 
montego
Site Admin


Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: 9456
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:50 pm Reply with quote

jaded wrote:
AMEN Guardian.


Yeah, I echo that as well. If you site is not "bogged down" and taking 5 minutes to load, there is NO way that ONE query if taking this long (even common sense says this right? Any given application is going to make MANY SQL queries in the course of one round-trip request. That is just what "dynamic content" is... generating dynamic content from some form of data store (mySQL).

They are most definitely talking B.S. and they need to back-up their claims with real examples from YOUR web site.

These guys don't know squat about their own business.

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ilbin
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Joined: Jul 18, 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 2:51 pm Reply with quote

Didn't the original post ask about delayed inserts? If that is the case, the server doesn't need to be bogged down to keep the mysql connection open for some time.

My host notified me to the same effect, and I didn't believe them either. So, I tested on my local linux machine and, sure enough, the mysql showed processes as delayed inserts just sitting open until timeouts killed them.

What I'd like to know is why is this software using delayed inserts if everything I can find (save this thread) says they should be avoided? Having searched both my files, database, and the web for information on turning this off, I'm thinking of dumping this thing altogether.

montego - as an administrator, shouldn't the information you are providing be accurate? Perhaps you don't know squat.
 
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jaded
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:24 pm Reply with quote

Quote:

montego - as an administrator, shouldn't the information you are providing be accurate? Perhaps you don't know squat.


that was out of line. Are you simply trying to piss people off?
 
ilbin
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:36 pm Reply with quote

Absolutely not. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the delayed insert issue, and having a moderator provide such blatantly false information is irritating.

We're talking about delayed inserts here - and the moderator was stating that unless the server is bogged down, there is "NO way that ONE query if taking this long". That is simply missing the point of what a delayed insert is, and it isn't helpful to the original poster or someone like me who is actually looking for a solution.
 
Tao_Man
Involved
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Joined: Jul 15, 2004
Posts: 252
Location: OKC, OK

PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:41 pm Reply with quote

well nuke does not use delayed inserts. I searched the whole code and not one instert comand is a delayed insert, so if you got any nuke didn't create them.

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shawn_himself
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:54 pm Reply with quote

first off real quick tao_man its nice to see a poster so close to me as i am in tulsa lol .

anyways regaurding the post by ibin i have to agree with jaded that was uncalled for to attack montego like that. he very knowlegable with nuke. and contributes a great deal to these forums. he has helped me with several issues i have had in the past.

now regaurding my post that started this thread yes , i "was" looking for a solution to this problem. justto update everyone in my case. my site was suspended by my host due to a delayed insert issue. when i asked the host to send me a sample query they said "they couldnt"

i know nothing about delayed inserts. however i can say this,

i have spoken with bob marion and raven via e-mail.

bob marion looked at my site (addons etc ) and didnt find anything !

im not doubting that you might have had a delyed insert issue.

but here is my question

why is that the people such as bob marion , raven and various other "vetaran" nuke webmasters all have the same thing to say on this ? this not the only board i posted this issue on.

id like to know if you post where you found your problem ? if you wantto contribute to this community post something positive. for ex was it a particluar table or tables in your db that was the issue ?

can in anyway clarify further what you found in your case that was the problem.

i am in the process of rebuilding my nuke site on a new host as i type this and have decided to install a fresh copy of nuke and see what my new host does/says in a few weeks. i will be using all the same mods ,addons etc.

ill say this too real quick. i have an idea of where my possible :delayed insert" issue "could" be. i use the old oxyshout tag board. the reason is i just like the way i can customize the look of it to match my site. thats the only reason i use it. now no one had posted on my tagger in about a week. then 2 people posted shouts on it 2 nights ago and the following morning my site was suspended for delyed inserts. so maybe , just maybe it might be my tag board. but ill see

i just saw that attack on montego and thought that it was childish.
 
gregexp
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:03 pm Reply with quote

Just for a heads up, This might seem a bit over the top.

ILBIN
Whoa, Ive been reading A LOT about delayed inserts and to clear this up.

NUKE does NOT use delayed inserts.

According to mysql experts from mysql.com,

Delayed inserts can be fit into 2 categorys. One being that its delayed via the script, The other being its being delayed via the SERVERS BUFFER SIZE.
And a previously stated the script does not use delayed inserts.


As for the montego dont know squat statement, He was NOT wrong and has contributed hours to helping others and to see this blatent insult just makes my blood boil.

Tell you host to set the APPROPRIATE settings in the database server and as for your test site, set yours as well!!!

My advice: RTFM

And to insult anyone here is truly sadning and knowledge is to be gained with google!!!!
 
montego
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:24 pm Reply with quote

ilbin wrote:
Absolutely not. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of the delayed insert issue, and having a moderator provide such blatantly false information is irritating.

We're talking about delayed inserts here - and the moderator was stating that unless the server is bogged down, there is "NO way that ONE query if taking this long". That is simply missing the point of what a delayed insert is, and it isn't helpful to the original poster or someone like me who is actually looking for a solution.


Well, you have a real bed-side manner now don't you? You think that YOU are irritated????

Have a nice day...
 
Guardian2003
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:11 pm Reply with quote

ilbin - I think there is some confusion here.
Nuke doesnt not use any delayed INSERT statements but what can happen through less than optimised code is that when a SQL query is made, the connection can remain open.
Whilst connections would normally close themselves after a preset time, many add-on modules and indeed core nuke itself tends to rely more on the self closing ability that using something like mysql_freeresults() to force the connection closed after a query is completed.

I know this specific issue is being adresses as part of the many improvements for Raven Nuke.
Montego was correct in his statement (and mine also) that there is no sql query within nuke that should take 5 minutes to execute. There may be times when queries may take longer than expected, for example on shared hosting environment where disc space has reached its limit or there is high memory or CPU usage etc but that is a host related issue, nothing to do with phpNuke.
 
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