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reverend_chaos
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Joined: Jul 13, 2006
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:11 pm Reply with quote

I know you are going to argue that you have instructions for how to install phpnuke.

I've read these.

I would think that you could simplify the instructions to: "do this, do that, then do the next thing."

What you have now is a great tutorial on how and why each step works, but being a noob to the initial php install I found your "easy install" instructions too cluttered with explanations of why to follow the how and what to do.

If you do make a new set of instructions, I realy don't think you need to tell me (or other noobs) why we need to do each step on install. We already assume that you know what needs to be done.

I have tried setting up a test site from you're instructions enclosed with raven nuke 76 and have failed to be able to make the site work. I normally follow directions fairly well and am far from ignorant.

I don't know phpnuke that well; but I am sure others would agree that if you are going to have an easy installer it should be rather simplified or noobs are going to have to ask a lot of questions and flood your forums with repeat post because the instruction is not in plain site.

So the next time you see a double post with another person asking the same 'dumb' question. Rather than having one of experienced users harp about not reading the instructions you could at least reference the post and/or its link where the question should have been answered. Then again you could learn from repeted questions and attempt to make that part of the instructions clearer.

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Formerly Reverend_l337 But along came PHP-Nuke; and now theres Chaos 
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hitwalker
Sells PC To Pay For Divorce


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:54 pm Reply with quote

good day to you to.... Laughing
 
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gregexp
The Mouse Is Extension Of Arm


Joined: Feb 21, 2006
Posts: 1497
Location: In front of a screen....HELP! lol

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:55 pm Reply with quote

Now lets see if I (not associated with raven nuke but still cant find a more secure nuke) can shed some light on this.

This seems to be more of a complaint then a question, but I'll address it as a question of WHY do install readmes contain so much information.

As the instructions work for MOST enviroments, some enviroments dont apply the same rules and functionality. So in telling you what this does, if your inviroment doesnt conform to the install readmes bases, you now have a place to begin with a search on howto fix it and if you know your enviroment and have an idea of what its supposed to do, you may just beable to figure it out without direct support.

Now I'm sure noone here will ever turn down helping someone install it, but can you imagine how many people would need support if they had no clue what something was supposed to do?

This is the reason for the readme in my opinion being as detailed as possible.

Hope this may make you understand why somethings were not made so general, as things change, things will be updated. Ravennuke is one of the most supported nukes out there, as you can see. So your choice as to what you use, but I'd ask for help to install it and you can easily read testimonials from people who would say the same thing.

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Guardian2003
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Joined: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 6793
Location: Ha Noi, Viet Nam

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:08 pm Reply with quote

reverend-chaos, perhaps you could tell me which parts of the installation were not clear so I can take a look.
Obviously we are keen to make the installation procedure as clear and as simple as possible but at the same time, we do have to cater for users with a wide knowledge base. What is simple to one person may seem complicated to another and vise versa.
 
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montego
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Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: 9456
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:51 pm Reply with quote

reverend_chaos, hhhhhmmmmm... is the QUICKSTART file in the root of the distribution more what you are looking for? Probably not. To Guardian's point, specifics would be helpful given that this is the first time I've heard of anyone complaining about the installation instructions.

TIA

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jaded
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:43 pm Reply with quote

I really do not understand what is so complicated about it. How is loading all of the files/folders to your webroot and then going to yourdomain.com/INSTALLATION/installSQL so hard? Confused

I do not think it could get much simpler. The other information is good to help people to deal with any minor issue that comes up.

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reverend_chaos
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:12 am Reply with quote

Alright, I have previously installed Nuke Sentinal and other nuke addons, so I am not a total noob. My issues have been 98% with the test host having decided the last 2 weeks to be doing several changes to the sql and other base programming to their servers. Having found this out I will have to restart from 0 and re-upload everything. This is most fun on dialup.

On the other hand as I re-read the installation instructions I found several small steps hard to distinguish from the explanation of the step before. This originally made me think it was possible I had missed these steps. Adding to my confusion was the fack that the site constantly popped up 404 and 500 type error messages which turns out are most likely related to the host.

It would be much easier if (fore example) the instruction to chmod .htaccess was a numbered step rather than being included with a large paragraph explaining the difference between gui and sql (this is example only).

Also if you have to make a step based on what system your host runs then it help if the install step read something like "IF ..., Than..." and perhaps in a seperate paragraph structure came the explanation why and what for.

I guess that someone used the APA document format to write and edit the install how to. You might try it in MLA format so those of us that are engineers and other non psychiatric patients can read it easier. Of course some of us should stick to designing and improving cars and some should make websites; but if that were to happen how would ou know about the new sports car being released in europe.

My, one issue is that my site will not show the controls on the admin page, or allow me to create a superuser after i get to the point of deleting the INSTALLATION folder from ravennuke 76


P.S. The first post was neither question or complaint but suggestion. There was no intent to rain on anyones parade.

[/b]
 
jaded
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:53 am Reply with quote

Quote:

You might try it in MLA format so those of us that are engineers and other non psychiatric patients can read it easier



These kind of statements come across as offensive to most people. I believe that Raven wrote the instructions but I could be mistaken. No one else has ever complained about them. They are by far the simplest instructions to follow that I have ever found in a nuke package.
 
montego
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:01 am Reply with quote

reverend_chaos,

Quote:

Also if you have to make a step based on what system your host runs then it help if the install step read something like "IF ..., Than..." and perhaps in a seperate paragraph structure came the explanation why and what for.


To Darklord's earlier point, we have NO idea what your hosting environment is going to be. No-one can possibly write instructions for all. That is what the forums are for.

Quote:

It would be much easier if (fore example) the instruction to chmod .htaccess was a numbered step rather than being included with a large paragraph explaining the difference between gui and sql (this is example only).


Point well taken.

Quote:

I guess that someone used the APA document format to write and edit the install how to. You might try it in MLA format so those of us that are engineers and other non psychiatric patients can read it easier.


My least favorite internal customers (at work) are my Engineers! (I am an engineer by schooling by the way with both a BS and MS, just so you know why I can make comments about engineers LOL.) They can generally not see beyond their own noses as they are all wrapped up in their very technical minds. They are very good at what they do until they try to tell everyone else how to do things their way when the rest of the world doesn't think like them...

There... that must make me a schizophrenic!
 
Raven
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:32 pm Reply with quote

reverend_chaos wrote:
I guess that someone used the APA document format to write and edit the install how to.


Actually, I used the WMTMSTM format.
 
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Guardian2003
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:14 pm Reply with quote

What
My
Time
Made
Sensible
Today
Mate
???
 
Raven
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:21 pm Reply with quote

killing me

What
Makes
The
Most
Sense
To
Me
 
FireATST
RavenNuke(tm) Development Team


Joined: Jun 12, 2004
Posts: 637
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:57 pm Reply with quote

lol.... ROTFL

Thank you, I needed that today.... Laughing
 
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reverend_chaos
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:17 pm Reply with quote

ROTFL
All right; so I am the first to complain.

At least I didn't ask the same stupid question again, and again.

The only offence ment by the APA format was aimed at a the University of Phoenix (where I took a couple classes on business management). That school is sub par or at least that campus was. Assume if you can't read it, you have it in the format (APA is useless) they want.

Actually, I don't think the directions are bad in the slightest. I just think that if we could pull the step apart from the explanation it might make reading the instructions (for noobs) easier. That way when someone says "didn't you read the instructions!!!!?" You have reason to use the !!!.

Then again, maybe noobs shouldn't be trying to load raven nuke 76.

I assume that any one of you can install this package in under 15 minutes and be on your way to replacing the banners and adding content. So why is it now that the host says everything is fixed on their end I can't get this up in 3 days?
 
reverend_chaos
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:30 pm Reply with quote

montego wrote:


My least favorite internal customers (at work) are my Engineers! (I am an engineer by schooling by the way with both a BS and MS, just so you know why I can make comments about engineers LOL.) They can generally not see beyond their own noses as they are all wrapped up in their very technical minds. They are very good at what they do until they try to tell everyone else how to do things their way when the rest of the world doesn't think like them...

There... that must make me a schizophrenic!


Bi-Polar at least! But then some of the best artists paint more than one scene on one canvas. Just remember, as you should already know, engineers are never happy unless they're tweeking something for better performance. Plus just like doctors theres medics and theres people who read the books and passed the knowledge tests and have no bedside manner. Who'd you rather have operate? ...

... That's right the engineer! Get out of the OR and into recovery with several new mods for better performance.
 
Guardian2003
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:30 pm Reply with quote

OK, so you are still having problems.
If you have MSN messenger add me - 'Guardian' or PM me your site info;
ftp login
cpanel login
what you want to use for the god and user account names/passwords and of course the site address.
 
reverend_chaos
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 3:47 pm Reply with quote

Now that Gaudian has made it clear that its the host at fault making my page not load right.

Any suggestions for a new test host?
Needed: 500meg storage and sutible bandwidth; MySQL and php nuke compatable.

Don't need: a bill. Yet.
 
Raven
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:29 pm Reply with quote

Uh, Raven Web Hosting?
 
Guardian2003
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 4:36 pm Reply with quote

Just for completeness....
The issue was with the free hosting service. They are providing free accounts as sub-domains of their main domain. The sql server is something to behold and we'll leave it at that.
The host is forcing 404 error pages filled with ads in order to compensate for the *free* service which they have royally screwed up meaning that even valid access to existant files result in a 404 error - thus the site is not working.
The installer ran without a hitch and set up completed correctly but with the stupid server configuration they have, you cannot access the index.php or admin.php
 
gregexp
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:34 pm Reply with quote

Sounds like they are in need of a more complete host.

I second Raven's lasts post
 
reverend_chaos
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:26 pm Reply with quote

Whats the best deal on hosting Raven ... I'm trying to avoid cost as this is mostly an attempt at learning php better. If things go as expected It will still be 2 months before I can manage a real server cost. (BTW for final server yours is one of the top 2 choices)
 
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