Ravens PHP Scripts: Forums
 

 

View next topic
View previous topic
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Ravens PHP Scripts And Web Hosting Forum Index -> Raven's RavenNuke(tm) v1.x Distro
Author Message
Raven
Site Admin/Owner


Joined: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 17086

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:10 pm Reply with quote

Please understand that at this point I am not concerned with W3C compliancy, in any way. This is not a fork (at least not yet). All I am concerned with are the issues with integrating an editor, regardless of which one. So, if all will please limit the discussion to base nuke (patched of course) and an editor, it will make this thread more applicable and pertinent.
 
View user's profile Send private message
montego
Site Admin


Joined: Aug 29, 2004
Posts: 9453
Location: Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:14 pm Reply with quote

64bitguy wrote:
..."as far as I know, I have the only working model capable for supporting editors not only with 100% Function and security, but 100% W3C Compliant as well.


You keep "teasing" us with it, but you don't release it. Sure wish you would so that we can end the debate and wait, and move on with a release that the community can finally be proud of. But, that is for a different thread... Laughing

_________________
Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!
Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! 
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
64bitguy
The Mouse Is Extension Of Arm


Joined: Mar 06, 2004
Posts: 1159
Location: Sanbornton, NH USA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:12 pm Reply with quote

I realize now what you are going for Raven, but I should comment that without W3C compliance, the result is that output may create problems for different types of aggregation. For example, non-compliant output would result in Magpie and other aggregation software not being able to interpret the feeds. As validation is a requirement, it could present various problems.

As for the rest, yeah... I would probably stick to Tiny just because of the compatibility issues I outlined. Like I said, I like Spaw and FCK, but compatibility wise, both have issues. On top of that, the overhead is huge for both of them.

Just my 2 cents.
Steph

_________________
Steph Benoit Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!
1CMS, 100% Section 508 and W3C XHTML/CSS Compliant (Truly) 
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Raven
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:28 pm Reply with quote

If I was going for W3C then I would be duplicating your works and that's not my intent. I am just reacting to the very many who have been having problems making this all work. Thanks for your 2 cents Wink ? (want change ROTFL )
 
kguske
Site Admin


Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 6383

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:29 pm Reply with quote

Using a WYSIWYG HTML editor does make maintaining a site more convenient AND it can help make it more compliant. These factors should weigh the most heavily when comparing WYSIWYG editors and deciding if you should use one. Both of these reasons make it worthwhile for me to implement a WYSIWYG editor so that my non-technical clients and site administrators can maintain sites without my help - that's worth its weight in gold!

Depending on how it's implemented, the use of a WYSIWYG HTML editor doesn't require that every textarea be touched. The 7.7 and 7.8 implementations of TinyMCE use an all-or-nothing (OK, an all period) approach that replaces all textareas. But it could be implemented to only be used on appropriate functions and with appropriate security.

Browser compatibility is important, but complete compatibility with every browser isn't necessarily required. First, identify the textareas for which you want to use a WYSIWYG editor. For me, in an unimproved (i.e. no additional modules) Nuke implementation, that means:

admin/modules/blocks.php
admin/modules/messages.php
admin/modules/newsletter.php
admin/modules/settings.php
modules/Content/admin/index.php
modules/Encyclopedia/admin/index.php
modules/FAQ/admin/index.php
modules/News/admin/index.php
modules/Submit_News/index.php

As you can see, MOST of these functions are ADMIN. So the real question is, does it work with the ADMINS' browsers of choice? Sure, some visitors will want to Submit News using an unsupported browser. If the WYSIWYG editor is implemented correctly, these users will see a textarea (which I'm sure they'll be used to, since few WYSIWYG editors support these browsers). Not to stoop to the "MSIE is king" mentality, but look at your statstics to see what percentage of your site visitors use these browsers - or browsers that aren't supported by your preferred WYSIWYG editor.

As for performance, yes, using a WYSIWYG editor will cause those functions that use it load more slowly. In fact, it's really only significant on the Content maintenance / add page, since there are 4 textareas on the same page. But, how frequently are those functions used? Load time aside, how much time do you save by using a WYSIWYG editor? Is the trade-off worth it?

To me, the best approach is to use a textarea replacement that can be implemented wherever the webmaster chooses, either by modifying code or modifying configuration. It would allow the webmaster to choose from multiple WYSIWYG editors using the same code interface - or to turn off the use of a WYSIWYG editor all together. It would support HTML filtering - something the standard Nuke distribution does poorly - since the WYSIWYG editor wouldn't be used in all instances.

_________________
I google, therefore I exist...
Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!
 
View user's profile Send private message
Dawg
RavenNuke(tm) Development Team


Joined: Nov 07, 2003
Posts: 910

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:20 pm Reply with quote

Greetings,
Security is an issue....To get around this I have mine turned on in just the Admin areas thoughout the site. To me is about how much time it takes me to update the site per day.....everyday. I can write html no problem.....but do I want to....NO. I can also drive a stick.....but own 4 automatics.

One of the things I like is the array for the areas to be included or excluded. This makes turning on the ones you want easier. (In SPAW you can turn all of them on then exclude the ones you don't want or turn them all off and then include the ones you want.)

Dawg
 
View user's profile Send private message
kguske
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:49 pm Reply with quote

When I first Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!, I looked at FCKeditor 2.01 and TinyMCE 1.44RC2. Both have improved significantly since then. I updated the review to reflect the current status of these tools. In the first review, FCKeditor had much better functionality than TinyMCE. But TinyMCE has caught up in a few areas and added some extra nice features - especially to enhance compliance. The demo / examples didn't work under Opera as it claims, but I can live with that. I'll have to take a closer look under the covers to see if I can make it work with the approach I mentioned earlier - I'm optimistic.
 
Raven
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:24 pm Reply with quote

So am I hearing that maybe TinyMCE isn't so bad after all?
 
kguske
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:08 pm Reply with quote

Not sure where the bad impression came from... Overall, it's a good WYSIWYG editor, especially if it's integrated properly (i.e. not like it was in 7.7+). The commercial plugins bother me, though I understand the reasons for doing that. FCKeditor - and all it's functionality - are open source.

It would be great to have TinyMCE load only when needed and have better control over where its used. But those are integration choices too...
 
Raven
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:22 pm Reply with quote

I had mentioned this in another post not pertaining to this, but is there a chance of a marriage between one of these editors and this Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!
 
kguske
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:02 pm Reply with quote

That's the way to keep us on our toes, Raven! Based on that previous discussion, I did a Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!, including the Cyberai tool, which is one of the better tools I found. Prior to that, I integrated the kses tool for the same purpose. I think the Cyberai tool could be integrated with Nuke, with or without an HTML editor, but I haven't had time to look at it...
 
Raven
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 11:10 pm Reply with quote

Cheers
 
montego
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:36 am Reply with quote

kguske wrote:
Not sure where the bad impression came from... Overall, it's a good WYSIWYG editor, especially if it's integrated properly (i.e. not like it was in 7.7+). The commercial plugins bother me, though I understand the reasons for doing that. FCKeditor - and all it's functionality - are open source.

It would be great to have TinyMCE load only when needed and have better control over where its used. But those are integration choices too...


My experience with TinyMCE has been integrated with Nuke on Steph's W3C domains. The bulleted and numbered lists do NOT work right. Give it a try and see if it works for you, but test it like someone non-technical who is writing a news article or content page: "They" have entered in a paragraph or two of content and then want to follow it with a bulleted or numbered list and then finish up with a final paragraph. It does NOT behave the way one would expect.

In my mind, if it is not "idiot proof" Laughing it has no business being used in "prime time" on the web... but, I can be picky when it comes to supporting my customers.
 
Guardian2003
Site Admin


Joined: Aug 28, 2003
Posts: 6793
Location: Ha Noi, Viet Nam

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:47 am Reply with quote

Montego, I though this was only applicable to nested lists - thanks for the heads up
 
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kguske
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:59 am Reply with quote

Hmmm... well it seems to work fine in Firefox 1.0.7. I noticed on Steph's version that if you press Enter on a blank list item, it returns to normal formatting and removes the last list line. The Example on MoxieCode's site doesn't do that.

But I agree with your point - usability is the reason you have a WYSIWYG editor. Let's come up with a more exhaustive test to match real world conditions: a series of steps we can use to objectively compare multiple WYSIWYG editors.

As I previewed this response, I saw Guardian2003's comment about nested lists. The nest list is fine, but the nested ordered list shows 1, then uses 1 again for the first nested list. FCKeditor works the same way.

Wow...when I tested under IE, I see what you mean! The tab button doesn't work the way you would expect in either editor for nested lists. But at least FCKeditor WORKS the way you would expect - and you can uses the indent buttons to get nested lists to work in IE.
 
montego
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:56 pm Reply with quote

kguske, yes, my tests were done with IE also. I'll have to re-do them using Firefox because I am interested in seeing how they differ. I had found by looking at the HTML that was being generated, that there really needs to be a differentiation between a "hard paragraph" and a "soft paragraph", from a usability standpoint.

In my opinion, a "hard paragraph" would need to occur when the user enters in the *Enter* key and should produce p tags. A "soft paragraph" would need to occur when the user enters in a *Shift-Enter*, just like in Word, and should produce the br tag. Not even sure if *Shift-Enter* can be trapped???? I would think Javascript could...

What I think is happening in TinyMCE is that the Enter keys are being generated with br tags and so when I then click on the bullet or numbered lists, it is having to look up further to the last closing p tag? (I know NOTHING about these editors, just the use models, so I am sure that I am not saying this properly from a technical standpoint.)

However, SPAW properly recognized the breaks and did the ordered lists properly, so I am not sure what it is doing differently. I didn't have to *Shift-Enter* either.

Anyways, that is all I have time for right now. Have to get back to work. Sad
 
ThePiston
Worker
Worker


Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 3:51 pm Reply with quote

Ok, noob jumping into this admin thread. Did we decide on an editor and do we have one to install now?
 
View user's profile Send private message
Raven
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 4:07 pm Reply with quote

We? That implies a pluralistic dynasty. Sorry, this is a monocratic dynasty ROTFL. I have tentatively decided to try out kguske's nukeWYSIWYG editor. Here is his description.


kguske wrote:
nukeWYSIWYG is the HTML editor class that uses FCKeditor and the kses HTML filter class. It allows a one line (PHP) replacement for textareas to allow WYSIWYG functionality. The kses class allows HTML to be checked securely (sixonetonoffun contributed the ideas for this).
 
Display posts from previous:       
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Ravens PHP Scripts And Web Hosting Forum Index -> Raven's RavenNuke(tm) v1.x Distro

View next topic
View previous topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001-2007 phpBB Group
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
 
Forums ©