Points System?

Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:16 pm

Oh, sweet!

Include the limitation of points per day per page view!
Include the limitation of per forum post and forum topic before points start to count cause that seems like an easy way for spammers to cheat the system!
Include the ability to turn it on and off per modules that even include points (journal entries, etc)!

I can promise you 100% from experience that users will encounter these problems. If you can not even come close to fixing them yourself, tell me again why you want to release this mod?

If you can not provide the proper security for everyone in every aspect, what is the point of releasing it at all? Your hoping that 1 out of every 25 nuke users might be able to do so? Seems very pointless to me...

It is not a problem for me that you released the code, but can you secure it to the point where it is unbeatable or works for every system available through nuke? If a person is able to secure it, do you think they would share it via GPL, we both know that not to be true.

You are willing to release a system that is surely half-baked to the general nuke community which doesn't seem very proficient to the overall nuke prestige.

The code to stop points per refresh is found here in case you have forgotten... [ Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! ]

Thx, Floppy

Involved Joined: Jul 03, 2006 Posts: 273

floppydrivez wrote:

If a person is able to secure it, do you think they would share it via GPL, we both know that not to be true.

Well that is the attitude of many Nuke Coders which is a big reason Nukes on the huge decline as CMS's go. A mod like this would not only be very popular but extremely useful to many sites (as I am sure it's been useful to yours). It is something that should/would make Nuke even more attractive. It'd encourage more activity on many nuke sites. Besides somebody started the cake already they just left it half baked. Something like this should have been completed and released a long long time ago.

As for a true answer to would someone able to build secure code and release it under GPL freely? Go look at Mozilla.org or joomla or drupal or openoffice or 100's of other more highly successful opensource projects than nuke and see where when people truly embrace opensource and how it is meant to operate how really big and advanced and successfull it becomes.

Seems you sound a little jealous somebodies gonna release something you worked hard on that you wanted to keep to yourself to set you apart from the rest but look on the bright side a change like this (and a few more that are needed) will actually benefit you in the long run cause it is the attitude of making better code freely available that just might have a chance of saving nuke and revitalizing it and drawing more users to it which will then mean more people will be searching for more mods and themes etc to use with it which may lead them to your site where you can cash in. Besides as tough as you make it sound it's pretty d*** basic crap that should be included in the cms anyway. As you say what use are points if they don't work right anyway? As a site owner it is valuable to you to have it working but does having it working only for you give you a competitive advantage? I wouldn't think it does much cause you aren't selling it? So why hog it then? Let John Q use it as well to stimulate activity amongst his users too.

Lastly here is another advantage to you if the code is public:

If your primary reward for points is the ability to use them to download files. What good is that if someone puts all the files you charge to download up for free? Why go to CT and have to work for the file I can get elsewhere for nothin? But now if that code is freely available more and more people will use it and wham now it seems you gotta work everywhere to get something and suddenly now your looking for the site that impresses you most to give your time too. So quite frankly if you think smartly about it making sure that type of code is freely available is actually in your best interest!

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:01 am

floppydrivez wrote:

You are willing to release a system that is surely half-baked to the general nuke community which doesn't seem very proficient to the overall nuke prestige.

I think that may be the first time I have ever seen the words "Nuke" and "prestige" in a sentence together! ROTFL

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:48 am

Quote:

If your primary reward for points is the ability to use them to download files. What good is that if someone puts all the files you charge to download up for free? Why go to CT and have to work for the file I can get elsewhere for nothin? But now if that code is freely available more and more people will use it and wham now it seems you gotta work everywhere to get something and suddenly now your looking for the site that impresses you most to give your time too. So quite frankly if you think smartly about it making sure that type of code is freely available is actually in your best interest!

Very true point, i also would like to see what others can do with it, and maybe expand the use and features of the points system. I personally prefer than the subscription feature in ways to unlock content... personal opinion though...

Quote:

I think that may be the first time I have ever seen the words "Nuke" and "prestige" in a sentence together!

LOL

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:41 am

Quote:

Seems you sound a little jealous somebodies gonna release something you worked hard on that you wanted to keep to yourself to set you apart from the rest but look on the bright side a change like this (and a few more that are needed) will actually benefit you in the long run cause it is the attitude of making better code freely available that just might have a chance of saving nuke and revitalizing it and drawing more users to it which will then mean more people will be searching for more mods and themes etc to use with it which may lead them to your site where you can cash in. Besides as tough as you make it sound it's pretty d*** basic crap that should be included in the cms anyway. As you say what use are points if they don't work right anyway? As a site owner it is valuable to you to have it working but does having it working only for you give you a competitive advantage? I wouldn't think it does much cause you aren't selling it? So why hog it then? Let John Q use it as well to stimulate activity amongst his users too.

I have nothing to be jealous of, you know that. By releasing something that is half-baked you simply add to the decline, not prosperity. We can only hope that someone will complete the mod and continue to release it.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:17 am

Im not sure why your assuming the mod is not complete? or for that matter assuming its half-baked? Your accusation has come from no-where and with no evidence.. so im still confused as to what your talking about.
Never the less... i hope as a 'community' we can enhance it further and help it to become apart of nuke.

Should help to answer the actually question of the topic starter as to what is the nuke points for? I think this would be a great starting point should it be a part of it.. and even if it isnt... it could be a talking point of what the capabilities of nuke are.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:22 am

trunks wrote:

Im not sure why your assuming the mod is not complete? or for that matter assuming its half-baked? Your accusation has come from no-where and with no evidence.. so im still confused as to what your talking about.

I am talking about the points mod, not the points for download mod. When I say it is half-baked, I am referring to how easily a points for download mod would be beaten due to the "half-baked" points mod.

For instance, if you allow points for rating articles, what is to stop users from rating every article you have multiple times? Nothing... The points for downloads mod is pretty much useless if you don't fix those type loopholes, but maybe someone will finishing baking the project. I didn't spend 3 years working on just adding points to the downloads module. This has been my point all along and you guys have been completely missing it. If you don't fix the points mod for nuke first, in turn it makes your points for downloads mod extremely vulnerable to cheaters. If it is vulnerable, then it is useless. I guess this is what bothers me most about what your doing here.

It has to start somewhere though, best of luck with it.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:12 am

floppydrivez wrote:

I have nothing to be jealous of, you know that. By releasing something that is half-baked you simply add to the decline, not prosperity. We can only hope that someone will complete the mod and continue to release it.

Oh your coding skills are excellent I grant you that but your sarcasm on the subject makes you sound jealous. I mean why not offer your assistance in making sure this is as good a release as possible? If you spent 3 years tweaking and tunning it you've probably learned better than anyone what the cheaters are goona try and so you can help make it better and more secure by sharing your experiences. That is what opensource is supposed to be about isn't it? Unless you have a good reason to keep the knowledge to yourself which may be understandable and if so perhaps you could at least explain that? Perhaps you think of it as a competitive advantage but as I point out in the long run the more sites employing it the actual better it is for you. The more you will have a competitive advantage then cause your site could be better designed with more to offer than others and then people would be encouraged to come to you first as I say if they gotta work everywhere why not work where they like best? At the same token those that come to your site are mostly ADMINS of their own site looking for stuff (information modules and themes) to enhance their sites from which they have many normal users that are likely not too interested in what your site has to offfer but are part of a small niche or community and at least those admins of those sites will now have a tool to help encourage more activity from it's members. The better those sites do the more those admins will be back to you looking for more things to improve their site with! It really is a win win situation for all.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:29 am

I have quite a few reasons for not releasing my code, but mainly because I still know of vulnerabilities in the system. Until, those are worked out I would never release something that I know is broken. Not to mention I would be releasing AND supporting a tweak to almost every module in the nuke system. I would never release something I was not fully dedicated to supporting in every aspect. I wish more shared my views, but apparently that isn't always the case.

I did not come here to offer my services as I have a site of my own to do that on. I got involved in this topic to warn users what they are about to get their self into and try to shed some light on what my experiences have been with the points system.

As for your jealous thing, I just can't figure that. Releasing this mod doesn't even put a dent in what is required to make this thing run smoothly. The actual points for downloads mod is a real 5 minute job. Your real man hours (or money is some peoples case) is going to be spent securing the points system from cheaters. That is if you have anything worth downloading anyway.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:51 am

You are quite right there a re many ways to "Cheat" and even you may have not blocked em all but several minds are better than one with us all sharing and working together we stand a greater chance of success of improving the system to a point where cheating is not so easy. Your input could be invaluable on the subject and you might find some of us come up with ideas that may be valuable back to you. It looks like trunks has taken responsibility for it so you don't have to be dedicated to it's support but doesn't mean you can't help trunks make sure he's heading in the right direction with advice and or samples of things you've done to improve it that he may not have thought of yet. I mean if your only main concern is the extra support that may arise from its release you can simply release it no support offered. Use at own risk. I am sure there would be enough coders out there willing to help tweak and improve it for the community. In the end you might get back something better than you put out. Once again I remind you that is what opensource is supposed to be about!

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:08 pm

Trunks has a past with CT that keeps us from playing on the same team or partnering on projects. We are also competitors in the same niche in which it isn't a good business practice for me to help him learn anything in general. Its like selling weapons to a country and then going to war with them. We both have a mutual respect for each ones rights as business owners and that is as far as I want that relationship to go.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:58 pm

lol...

Wouldnt mind some others opinions on whether it should be released or not...
Im also not going to own the mod either... it will be 'out there' to develope as part of the open source. I will assist with what ive put together, but its limitation is only that of its user. Im not saying my coding skills are any where near to Floppy's, but i have a good go.. and try by best.. just think it would be good for others to use this.
If you (floppy) feel that strongly about it not being released then maybe i shouldnt...?

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:19 pm

That is really up to you. I am just here stating the facts and sharing what I have learned over the course of 3 years.

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:25 pm

My interest was to help others... not to piss the community off. But i strongly believe it 'could' be made into something new.. a new points system.

If your up for discussing this at all with me floppy, you are welcome to add me to your msn address book.

Cheers Cheers

Trunks

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:25 pm

Well as I have stated earlier I think this is a mod that should have went from half-baked to fully cooked a long time ago. It's the kind of mod that could give healthy injections of activity to many a nuke site. The more nuke sites running successfully the stronger the community grows. So this is something that should be released in whatever shape or form it is so it can be improved.

I mean if you guys don't release it it'll be something I'll plan to tackle one day. But that may be a long while from now and it'd be a shame to have to do over something already done.