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Poll
Whats The Future Of PhpNuke
PhpNuke is Live And Kicking
20%
 20%  [ 3 ]
PhpNuke is Sleeping
26%
 26%  [ 4 ]
R.I.P PhpNuke
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Its Time To Fork
46%
 46%  [ 7 ]
None of the Above
6%
 6%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 15


Author Message
djmaze
Subject Matter Expert


Joined: May 15, 2004
Posts: 719
Location: http://tinyurl.com/5z8dmv

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:57 am Reply with quote

Not to mention but techgfx.com is closed (again) so what about Platinum.

There's pcnuke.com a derivative of cpgnuke and max.pcnuke.com a derivative of chatserv's phpnuke patched releases Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!

Then there's Imagination Nuke which is from the same author as Phoenix-cms

And the german community which sticks with 5.5 since FB changed the license to GPL since phpBB runs on GPL.

There are lots more and dead projects but mostly unknown or have never got the change to compete with the others.

I have my ideas about all those derivatives but it seems they all have a short life because the issue is that they are not innovative, they upgrade when the "main" system upgrades or when they find a nice module which suits their package.
Shure there are also derivatives that fix the modules and/or fix the html output.

However none of them have ever come up with innovative features, new ideas and/or complete redesigned modules. This has been proven again a few posts above regarding the "Downloads Pro" module and shure this will happen over and over again.

A derivative should be designed due to dislikes about the current system and not just by releasing the same system with some additional or replaced things.

Steph has proven his dedication to W3C compliancies and made a derivative that works since he disliked the current crappy state.

Phoenix-cms also does an outstanding job by globalizing his system to allow modules from several systems (cpgnuke, phpnuke and postnuke) but cpgnuke is a dead project for us and Dragonfly is incompatible.

Not only phpnuke has these issues, newcomers are mislead by the website of joomla which states they recieved awards and are opted already for an award although joomla is based on mambo but the difference here is that mambo is given to the community and the developers moved on to joomla.

What about phpfusion based on mambo and e107?
Or the father of phpBB that quit with it?

OpenSource is nice but has its down sides as well, it is attempting to try and lift along on someone else his success and forgetting to appreciate their dedicated time to something they build for you.

If it was me i would have written a complete new OpenSource License with some strict rules on anyone who tries to create a derivative work and mostly:

- inform the authors you are building a derivative and hereby accept you will not ask support in any form unless you provide code fixes and support as well
- Don't associate the authors to your derivative work and only provide credit to the software where credit is due

That way a person who tries to lift along needs to be fully self supporting and his members will not ask support on the website of the real author(s)

I think the BSD license comes close to this but i will try and read all OSI licenses when i have the time
 
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djmaze
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:18 am Reply with quote

P.S. An good example regarding system knowledge is here: Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login!
Any coder knows what the issue is and it's posted right there in the very first post.

[spoiler]setcookie() doesn't work if there's already output[/spoiler]

One of those reasons i hate those crappy coders that say:
Quote:
Open header.php and place the following code above the first line that says <?php

Only an ediot would dare to ask that from his users.
So far my rant about derivatives
 
technocrat
Life Cycles Becoming CPU Cycles


Joined: Jul 07, 2005
Posts: 511

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:52 am Reply with quote

Platinum is dead for the most part. TechGFX has stated he will be back, but I doubt it. TechNerd has started to work on another beta of it but I dont know how far he will go. With the stain on his (TechGFX) name now and the PNP project in general, I dont think it will recover.

After he wouldnt let me take over the project, I quit the project and start my own Nuke distro project from scratch. We have tried since the start to get as much W3C complaint as possible but its a challenge and I understand 64bits efforts even more now.

I think the biggest problem is that you cannot make everyone happy. It is just not going to happen. When working on my project we took input from a large community base and there still are a number of people that dont like this and that. But that is going to be a fact of life for anyone that starts, leads, or works on a project. The best thing you can do is accept that and try to not let it affect you. But you also have to LEARN from it and from what people are saying. Which is something that people like FB havent.

I do not fear criticisms, ideas, or suggestions, as long as its constructive, on my work because it only makes the project better and hopefully me a better programmer. Some people can't take those kinds of dings in their projects and thus the close their community.

Is Nuke dead? No I dont think so.

Is Nuke perfect? I dont think that even warrents an answer

But it still has a large user & support base. Plus people are still willing to improve, and fix it. As long as those factors exist people will still use it.

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phoenix-cms
Worker
Worker


Joined: Aug 05, 2005
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:00 am Reply with quote

djmaze you made good point there and i do understand, phoenix cms whick i been devloping based on nuke 7.6 started as a personal project i still have not decided if i will release the pubic, there over 100,000 lines of custom code, also code to read modules from postnuke and cpg as well and allows you to use these addons in a single cms,
while keeping queries low,
atm its producing around 28 - 36 queries with over 30+ modules preinstalled,
subscription system and the points system totally rewritten around cash mod and all modules with any type of content or comments has points as well,

i reprogrammed v3 arcade to support shockwave games there so much i not going to list it, but if i do release it its going under a licence that all the addons are gpl

as long i support the project fully there not going to be any problems, as as it supports nuke content and even instructions to make everything work as classes or even use the new template engine based on smarty as i aiming by version 2 to remove nuke templete system and use phoenix template engine i even thinking about removing postnuke and cpg mode from the database and functions as this is still early work and a lot more to come of the project.

and with nuke there will always be problems with people making there own distros,
i even noted a few of your posts as well about cpg licencing on google and there quite a lot of them.

and yes i was devloper of imgination nuke, and as i decided to make something better this is why i given the domain away and even the system itself and the peoson running it is not running it as good as i was but its there for people that want it,

there will always be problems with software as bigger problems with gpl as well.
as long as the authers are credited there wont be a problem

thanks

steve
 
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Raven
Site Admin/Owner


Joined: Aug 27, 2002
Posts: 17086

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:11 am Reply with quote

Think about the effect on the community at large. I constantly receive email/pm's asking which one should I use?. IMO, if we are to benefit the community, we need to isolate and alienate, if you will. Put another way, we need a common base to launch from, a standard to program by, and then let OpenSource do what it does so well - flourish.
 
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phoenix-cms
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:14 am Reply with quote

thats what i was hopeing to do, maybe very light package like phpnuke where users can tweak and even mod it if they want, and if it dont work at least it does what i want for my othersite

Smile
 
Raven
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:24 am Reply with quote

There are at least 5 or 6 independent projects like yours going on right now. That's my point. We need to focus on 1 universal package if we are to overcome phpnuke's deficiencies and convince the masses.
 
technocrat
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:29 am Reply with quote

That means leadership and direction from respected people in the community, such as yourself. Wink
 
Raven
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:35 am Reply with quote

Agreed.
 
kguske
Site Admin


Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 6383

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:48 am Reply with quote

I definitely agree with both Raven's and Technocrat's points.

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Mesum
Useless


Joined: Aug 23, 2002
Posts: 213
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:57 pm Reply with quote

Raven, you know it and I know it. There is no way in the world that egos of these people will make them work together. This is exactly why we have 6 different projects going on around us.

Hell, this why PHP-Nuke is not perfect, all because of the almighty ego.
Let's say somehow all these people say "Hey let's work on one project together" then everyone would want their project to be that "one project".

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djmaze
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:48 pm Reply with quote

I understand some people their feelings about "ego" however someone already did try to merge the knowledged people and now someone else is doing it again.

Don't get it wrong but we all are ego's which have our disagreements and ideas however if the leader doesn't have time to discuss these items with it's members (in this case FB) only the strong people will stand out and try it on themselves.

If there is/was a real leader that would be respected by everyone the project wasn't be doomed as it is at the moment. This process is easier in a real company since there is a real leader and he/she can communicate with the employees right away and discuss items at a table with beer.
A community like this has no such thing because there's no money and no leader and it's all spare time based so people go their own way.

There are a few leaders amongst but they just don't have the time for it because being a leader is 24/7 job and in this case without recieving money for it.
I've put 1000's of euro's into Dragonfly CMS by working on it 24/7 as a leader but that has taken the price and i ran out of money since i haven't accomplished in 2 years to make it a selvesupporting OpenSource system.
However i did learn of this experience and i did learn a lot, if you find posts from me of 2 years ago you will notice i've grown drasticaly in business of OpenSource matters. But i've also noticed that even with 2 people (akamu and me) the task of such huge project is to much to accomplish since you don't have time to support people, do payed tasks and develop the system.

I do hope this time the leader of this second attempt will achieve his goals and realy can get something of the ground and i will try my best to help the person with this task although i realy need to find a job and work to raise money.
 
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