Where is the support?

Site Admin/Owner Joined: Aug 27, 2002 Posts: 17088

It's time to be frank. To date there have been 2857 downloads of RN v2.40.00 and 148 downloads of RN v2.40.01. I have been requesting a donation whenever RN is downloaded, mostly to no avail. There have been but a few and for those I am truly thankful. However, let's do some simple math:

2857 x $10 = $28,570
148 x $10 = $1,480

2857 x $5 = $14,285
148 x $5 = $740

This would be more than enough to fund this project and splitting amongst the RN Team. I have been on the Internet since 1999 (or somewhere near there) and was heavily involved in Prodigy and BBSs before that. I have never had to resort to selling schemes or anything like that. I, like many of you, started as a hobby and then, possibly, ventured out.

But, I have reached a point where I am going to have to make some very tough choices. I just can't continue w/o donations. And I can't keep expecting the major players to give of their time w/o compensation of some kind. I have warned of this over the past year. This is not a mock threat - it is real and it is what it is. Sadly, if this project doesn't start generating real revenue, whether through donations, sponsorship, or what, then I will need to to adopt a different support policy or shutting down (which would only happen as a very last resort).

So, I am asking everyone who downloads and uses RavenNuke(tm) to support (by funding) the project and this support site. $10 per download is not too much to ask for a great product like RavenNuke(tm)?

Raven

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:48 pm

for:
2857 x $10 = $28,570
148 x $10 = $1,480

i could stop working.
Dream on.

Beside the money aspect you should consider to think abouth , what you are actualy doing.

Especialy , as what i noticed here , you are true believers in god.

Think of how many kids you took of the streets.
Gave fun and happiness whenever someone fixed something by this or other nuke site.

I would not if i where you , focus my mind on earning any money with the ravennuke project directly.
But indirectly , that could be.
Use your skills for something commercial and sell it.
We started osc2nuke before ravennuke , and that is almost 10 year ago.
For what i now, we made a few hundred $.
To keep this site alive and keep continue the project , isnt much needed.
For max €300,- a year you can be up and going on with it.
The time you spend on it would get lost anyway.
You either do it , or you dont do it.And when and how you decide.
You have no commitments to others, you not own anything to anyone here.
And no one should think that you own them anything.
You are the boss here.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:20 pm

i give you 1 tip.

Strip RN , take of the modules and focus on the kernell.
Create a d/l section for modules FREE and PAYED ones.
For each PAYED module/theme/block/hack or tweak ask a xx%.
Give people the option to submit/upload/update a download , let them fill a form where they could enter theire paypal account.
Let cliënts buy true your own payment gateway, and decide after X downloads or period to tranfer the money to the uploader minus your commision.

That is the only methode beside sponsors what would make any revenue.
+ it would give a push to coders to contribute theire skills.

What actualy should be concluded.
You shouldnt ask , they should ask you.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:33 pm

Some good points.
The problem with having a bare bones CMS and charging for extra modules, themes etc is that people will just go out of their way to download them from other sites that have them for less money or even free.
My wife still drives 7km down the road and buys 10 Euro's worth of petrol because it is a couple of cents cheaper than the garage around the corner even though it actually costs her more to do so unless she buys more than 20 euro's worth of fuel.

Changing the license may give developers the urge to write more modules and of a higher quality than most of the older modules I have seen if they can then protect their work from being re-distributed.

Personally, I think a subscription based support model works quite well, though only if the package is 'tracked' as being downloaded from this site. Don't forget this site isn't just about RavenNuke (tm) support, there is also a wealth of help and advice for third party modules/ themes, which is really the responsibility of the authors of that particular third party code.

Would RN suffer as a result? I think it depends on your perspective.
Sure, I think people might be more inclined to look at other products but isn't competition good for end users? It would also enable time to be used more effectively where it was needed.

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:23 pm

As an everyday kind of guy, full time work, kids, life etc.. I have no problem coughing up $10.00. Its on the way. I'm sure there are a lot more of users like me (kinda clueless and wanna stay that way), who appreciate the ease to be able to put up a really nice website with RN. I have used RN since 2006 and cant imagine using any thing else. The Forums are invaluable and priceless.
Salute to all involved.

Cheers

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:39 pm

Worker Joined: Mar 30, 2009 Posts: 132

toss in my 2 cents here hope noone minds.

I have found that a small percent of people are willing to donate. (maybe 1 to 2% of total users) not sure if its the economy due to people streched to thin all ready. or most people just dont have the extra to spend. I know myself if I had it i would gladly give it, but im one of them people who just dont make enough to really get by.

myself I was forced to use google ads to try and make enough though that to pay the hosting bill. and sometimes thats not enough.

alot of us are stuck in the situation we cant just keep paying to keep our sites online out of our own pocket and are kinda forced to look at other options. and sadly there isnt many options.

hope i dont step on any toes here.

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:31 am

I think you should create a membership which will include higher support level/forums/community. The membership could be like 35 to 75 usd per year. This can grow to membership that also includes extra neat addons, blocks, modules etc...once it becomes popular you can increase the $membership$... this is what i have experienced with others out there, you think you won't renew, but i always do...lols....you keep core always open source Cool

you could be sitting in a big pile of cash and might not even know it Wink

i mean...like how many people are using RN already? guardian i don't buy your argument, most and I would dare say at least 60 to 70% prefer to get there stuff original, not hacked off some other dudes site which can always have unwanted critters in the files...

jc

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:40 pm

Quote:

$10 per download is not too much to ask for a great product like RavenNuke(tm)?

What a question.
No, it isn´t too much.
I have sent you a PM. Wink

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:14 pm

I have to throw in with the "Do what needs to be done crowd" here. But I wholly agree contributions alone aren't making a difference.

Ads, hiding links from non subscribed users. Give full support to your clients, subscribers. Let the community have one or 2 forums to support each other. Put the rest read only to non subscribers.

Ramp up what ya can and throw down what must go! Your own needs have to come first.

I do believe the community is willing to grow they need a strong base to work with. While 2.40.01 has a lot going for it. Yet the competitions become fierce with new well scripted CMS being released regularly.

Thing is they strive to get here. We strive to bring the future today. HTML5, PHP6 are coming fast. Flash is dying and who knows perhaps clouds will replace old skhool CMS soon.

But I doubt it very much too many of us fat old bald guys around! I'm just glad to be a insignificant part of it all.

New Member Joined: Apr 08, 2010 Posts: 18

Im a little new here, and still testing Raven, but keep in mind that all downloads are not "live sites" that are going up. I am currently testing 3 CMS portals for a new site I am building, and have yet to decide which one I am going to go with.

I can tell you though, had there been a charge to download it, I would have just moved on. Once I decide on a final CMS for my site, I will have no issue throwing down some monies for my chosen option, but I still have a lot of testing to do. Good news though, Raven is in the lead so far, but there are a few issues pending that hopefully I can work out in the next few weeks.

Anyways 10$ is not bad for what I see so far, and if this is the solution I go with I will happily make a donation.

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:58 pm

Welcome to RavenNuke jbabey!

No its not. Compare to vbulletin publishing suite for a single site lic. $285 upgrade for major versions afterwards $250

Features are surprisingly similar given RavenNuke (tm) v2.40.01 team is asking for a small donation. " Settle for the Best and not the rest!"

Though there are endless choices out there RavenNuke always make my shortlist!

Client Joined: Apr 15, 2003 Posts: 466 Location: FL

OK, I've been missing for awhile, but I'm back & found this thread looking for some info I need. Info I know that if I can't find someone is gonna step up & help. Raven, you've been around a long time & you've always given freely of your time & knowledge.
I think you know where I stand on the donations.
I seen allot of decent suggestions made, but one thing stuck out at me & that's wHiteHat's first reply to you. Sorry, here comes the bulldog:
First off, I don't believe Raven expected $10 w/every download, but a few would be nice. It does cost to keep his server running. He's got site admin's., moderators, coders helping w/the project. I distinctly read that he planned on spreading out donations among his workers. I believe that might include you & your time, but couldn't swear to it.
Believers in God? I think most of us are. Unless you're a complete Atheist, then we are all believing in ONE God, ONE Creator that made us & all the things here on Mother Earth. What you choose to call your God is up to you & your God, coz it's about your relationship with God, not what the people in the church building, group gathering, where or whatever think you ought to do. It's about the One Creator & your relationship with. Why am I saying this? Well, I never saw once that Raven said he or any of his support team were gonna take every penny they got, pour it into RN. Some of this money could have been the very thing they were looking for to support a ministry for keeping kids off the street, feeding the homeless etc...
And let's face it, none (or at least most) of us really know what living conditions the rest of us are in..what our situations are. I don't think Raven was asking anyone to take food off their table or not pay their rent/mortgage, but let's face it: The people donating time could be doing something that put some frybread on the table.
I noticed too, that this member comes from the Netherlands. I have no idea what the economy is like over there right now. I have no idea how many dollars 300 pounds equals....but again, most of us don't know the other people's situation. If $30,050 allows you to quit working, maybe I need to bite the bullet on the cold & move to your country. Perhaps then I could live above the poverty level, rather than below it & stop making decisions like "food or medication....food or medication?" There's people that pay more money than that for housing alone.
I'm very happy that your project went so well & that it was done so quickly & with need of little funding. I'm sure you're a very nice person, or Raven would not have you on the team as a SiteAdmin.
However, I feel compelled to 'warn' you of this: If you're gonna get down on Raven & try to chastise him, you need to try to please do it where I don't see. It's like piercing me with a dull spike. It don't sit well with me.
From your posting, it seems that you also believe in God. With that being said & knowing that it applies to me as well as everyone else, you need to remember that when you point a finger at someone, there's 3 pointing back at you.
Thanks, I feel better! RavensScripts

OK, people, if you've got a buck or two that doesn't mean you're gonna lose the house, not feed the kids or pets, have no gas for work or cause some other personal disaster, how about helping an ole' boy out???

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:02 pm

Hi Guys

Forbid the intrusion.

First, I'm a pretty firm believer in the philosophies of the FSF... While I never "expect" people to contribute, I'm always hopeful anyway (go ahead, laugh out loud)...

My concerns are a couple fold.

First, I cringe when "God" is brought into any conversation about coding or money. IMHO, they don't mix.

Next, I don't see any stripped down version with module "sales" being viable under the terms of the GPL V2 or V3 license. It kind of flies in the face of these licenses and what's more, people could simply go elsewhere to add any stripped out code, or pretty soon, you'd simply have someone buying the files and putting them up somewhere for free d/l, thus defeating that whole plan. What's more, I think this ethics shift would be ill received by the user community.

Finally, I do believe there are quite a few ways to actually profit, but not from RN Distros. Services are one way. Theme fixing, tweaking, modding, installation, etc... these are all profit centers.

Another route would be to to make a "Members Only" site for custom support, information, bleeding edge add-ons, advanced distros, special modding, etc... Charge EVERYONE an annual membership fee to join. Don't want to join.. no problemo, you simply won't have the same premium access.

Finally, really want to shake things up? Take a look at the membership list here which is up to what? 20,000 Users? Do a fundraiser newsletter to all hands and ask everyone for $5.00 to, "Save the site". See what happens. I mean Five Bucks! A

nother option would be a 50/50 raffle holding a live drawing at a preset time where people have to be online in order to win! Half the profits come here, the other half to the winner.

There are a million ways to turn a buck if that's what needs to be done. The real question is this.... Who's really in this for the money? I mean I've worked on dozens of projects and I can't think of one where I was asking someone for money (or where someone offered to pay me anything)! I'd rather this went right into Raven's pocket for providing the hosting space, the boards, etc... but that's just me....

Today I shelled out a few bucks (though I haven't downloaded anything from here in like ... sheesh 3 or 4 years). If the purpose of raising money is to pay someone for writing modules, well.. okay... but that should be really good work! (It should always be that anyway, but I digress)...

In closing, I would suggest everyone watch the following two videos (if you have the time)... they are VERY insightful and informative:
[ Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! ]
[ Only registered users can see links on this board! Get registered or login! ]

Okay, point me to the CVS so I can start looking at the latest dev code... I've talked enough for a while.

Steph

P.S. Is there a dev forum for the next version somewhere so I can keep up with issues and direction?

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:26 pm

Steph, just d/l the latest release and you will have our latest release/development code.

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 7:36 pm

For the most part. There may be a few very minor things missing.

registered · Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:37 am

Steph, currently our latest release is our latest code but we already have the ingredients and the recipe to start cooking our next major release, and, as always everybody is free to brainstorm, contribute and code.

registered · Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:58 am

Raven wrote:

Sadly, if this project doesn't start generating real revenue, whether through donations, sponsorship, or what, then I will need to to adopt a different support policy or shutting down (which would only happen as a very last resort).

Why not lock support/download with a $2 per month subscription or something?
Who can't afford $2 a month?
If i'm correct anyone at least supports the church and/or others for more then that each month.

Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 2:21 pm

I think 64bit came up with some good ideas. I also agree that putting God into the situation is a bit uncalled for. I think anybody who breathes believes in God (no matter what their "religion" or what they call their Creator)
I agree that a "premium" membership might be beneficial, I have witnessed this being effective at other sites.
This next will sound petty & I'm sure all of you will go "Pffft...silly woman!" I've always received outstanding support at this site. But.....to some people $2 a month times 12 months is $24. Doesn't sound like much does it?
If I was gonna give anyone $24 a year for advice it would be Raven & some of the staff here who have their own sites & have gone above and beyond for me, more than once. However, I wonder how many of us are trying to squeeze out an existence by doing some side work for those even less literate than we are. While I'm not stupid (OK, I heard you guys thinking that!) there are times when I hit walls & can't climb them. Many months $2 is alot of money to me since I am one of those who survives on Social Security Disability. Believe me when I tell you people, there's not much "security" to it.
Do not misunderstand, I would gladly give it for the premium membership, providing I had it. I've seen days when I was wishing for $2 in order to buy a bag of beans & some rice (& ya gotta empty the pennies to have enough to do that). For some of us, letting go of even that small amount is hard much of the time.
I've always tried to support the site to the best of my ability & right now I'm expecting a few dollars extra. This will be the first place I stop to share some of it.
I think it's an outstanding idea, however...I also feel that the people who are charging a couple hundred bucks just to install the software for someone less literate could dump more than a couple bucks here & there.
Dammit, give Raven your money! Laughing

Pitbull, over & out...& please, I hope no one takes offense at my opinions. If so, I'm sorry you do....I'll shut up now since I've had a lousy day & tend to turn into a smart a** at times like this.

Worker Joined: Aug 26, 2007 Posts: 236

Maybe those with Social Security Disability could get a free Premium membership?

Regular Joined: Aug 12, 2008 Posts: 58

I think you should do a $1 shop module where you have loads of modules all for $1 each. i would buy from it if i knew that the money was going to help towards this project.
$1 may not seem much but it would all add up.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:06 am

Quote:

Especialy , as what i noticed here , you are true believers in god.

The reason i said that , was that i stumbled more then once on topics where HE was mentioned.
And i thought same then, as most above , "what HE got to do with it",anyway.

However , i also said it to give raven a positive feeling abouth what he do for others, and that there isnt much $ needed to keep this site/project alive.
Also keep in mind i was the 1st one who replyed to his post , if it continued already before i answered i might not have said that.

Not that i feel ashame i said that.

But i noticed Raven is missing a commercial spirit, in my opinion you shouldnt make such posts, simply do your thing, show some creativity.
Stop discussing and DO SOMETHING.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:17 am

wHiTeHaT,

I understood what you meant. Just for the record and to put his "God" comment in the proper perspective, Whitehat knows that I and MANY of those on the RN Team and others who frequent this site are Christians and he was directing his comments, concerning God, in a more personal direction to us and not (necessarily) to everyone.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:21 am

Correct

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:42 pm

Hey guys,

I agree wholeheartedly that people should donate.

But to be 100% honest, it's actually not as easy to sell ravennuke to the non-nuke user/new site owner.

Why? because a CMS as complex as Ravennuke has become is not easy for people who just want to slap a site up.

A few suggestions:

1, make a page that compares the various commonly used CMS' out there, such as joomla, drupal, php-nuke, and ravennuke.

Be honest, in my opinion, ravennuke outdoes them all in security and features.

2, make youtube video's on how easy it is to get a base level site going.

3, put a little advertisement at the bottom of the webpage, need support contact gregexp at {my email link}, support given for $2 for the first hour... (hehe, had to).

seriously, 3, put a bullet drop down in the installer for various modules, and have the installer install those modules(They don't have to be apart of the installer package, though that would make it easier for the installer should the host make file writing not possible).

4, make a cPanel addon module(cPanel just released the legitimate howto for making addons for it's panel). (this you can sell to webhosts and such).

another thing, when people see double digit figures(whether it be $99 or $10), they instantly cringe, I guess it's subliminal.

but if you were to say, donate $7, I doubt that reaction would come.

I think 7 is a good blend, I think you'd get more donations for $7, which would add up well beyond what you'd make with $10.

A module for custom support would also be helpful.

I'm not around here much, I've been tapping mainly into control panel developments and server administration stuff. but if you need the help ever, please feel free to contact me.